Project Hail Mary

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described hilarious and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:11)
And that's me. In each episode, we dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and unexpected insights on all the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:21)
We're here to explore everything from your book club favorites to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:30)
So settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:44)
That's gonna make it in.

Kristy (00:46)
Hello listeners and welcome to season four, episode seven of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy.

Jon (00:53)
The second host, I'm Jon. I'm the one that Kristy makes read all of these.

Kristy (00:59)
Second host?

Jon (01:00)
Second host as opposed to co-host.

Kristy (01:03)
I mean, you are the co-host.

Jon (01:05)
Host number two, second host,

Kristy (01:08)
Well, here we are second host talking about our seventh and final book and film combo this season.

Jon (01:15)
Yes, this week we're discussing the book you've been waiting for all season. Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir, both the book and of course the new film that's out with Ryan Gosling.

Kristy (01:20)
All season!

Yes, I said last episode that I feel like Black Widow. All I've been trying to do is get to this moment. So now we have collected all the Infinity Stones and we're ready to talk about this book and save the world. What a great metaphor for this book. Save the universe. So why did I pick this book for Jon? to

Jon (01:49)
True.

Kristy (01:56)
quite honest, I really wanted to read this book. So I had been waiting, knowing this film was going to be made. And then if you've been following along this season, you know that I had this idea to do

books that have film adaptations. And so every book we've read this season has had a film made. And I just thought this would be the perfect spot for it. am always reminded when I read a science fiction book, how much I love science fiction. I just don't know what to read.

And so I don't read as much of it as I think I would really like to because typically I very much enjoy it. So I'm here for a book about space. I'm here for a book about things that seem impossible. I'm here for a complicated problem. And I just thought that would be a story that you would enjoy too.

Jon (02:47)
and I did. And I did. This was definitely worth the wait and the timing and the build up to do this book. unfortunately, or fortunately for me, because I can take a break from reading for a little bit, this will be our last book of the season. We'll still have a recap episode in two weeks, ⁓ covering all the things that we talked about this season.

all the books and movies and whatnot. But yes, this will be the last book book. So

Kristy (03:22)
Yeah. So we will have a season recap following this episode, but then we will take a break and then we will come back with season five and seven more books for Jon to read late this summer.

Jon (03:34)
Seven. Yikes.

Kristy (03:37)
except

Jon (03:40)
So you want to get into that spoiler free book summary?

Kristy (03:44)
No, I

want you to tell people how they can follow us.

Jon (03:46)
⁓ they know how to follow us. They can go to Instagram, they can go to TikTok, they can find us on YouTube. All the different ways on our website, of course, that they can keep up with us and our schedule and what books we have covered and what books will eventually come out next season.

Kristy (04:05)
All right, are you ready for that spoiler free book summary now?

Jon (04:08)
I was ready 30 seconds ago, but sure, let's do it.

Kristy (04:11)
You're so rude.

Ryland Grace wakes up alone on a spaceship with no memory of who he is, how he got there, or why his two crewmates are dead beside him. As his memories slowly return, he realizes he's on a desperate last-transmission to save Earth from extinction-level threat. The problem? He's millions of miles from home, the clock is ticking, and he's the only one left to figure it out.

Jon (04:35)
As grace pieces together the science behind the crisis, the story unfolds both his present day problem solving and the events that led to this mission in the first place. What begins as a survival story quickly becomes a puzzle filled with scientific discoveries, unexpected challenges and moments of humor that lighten the high stakes tension.

Kristy (04:57)
Blending science fiction, mystery and heart, Project Hail Mary is a story about ingenuity, resilience, and what happens when one ordinary person is asked to solve an impossible problem and discovers he might not be as alone as he first thought.

Jon (05:13)
All right, this is the moment of the episode where we will be voyaging off into the great unknown called spoiler land. So grab some astrophage, attach it to your wagon and zoom on out of here.

Kristy (05:13)
WARNING!

That's firing up a wagon.

Jon (05:34)
better be some strong wheels.

Kristy (05:36)
Yeah,

they're about to melt right off that thing.

Jon (05:41)
Good times. All right.

Kristy (05:43)
Alright,

so tell me what you thought about this book.

Jon (05:47)
man, it was, I think I really enjoy science fiction as it was just, it was really good. I mean, I, I think this might be the fastest that I've read a book all season. just kept me engaged. I loved the

Kristy (05:53)
It was good. That's the end.

Jon (06:06)
science, I loved the humor, I love the characters and the dynamics around all the different characters. I thought that how it all sort of spliced together and I know we'll get into more more of this in detail, but how it unfolded the present and past and how that blended together and

I mean, yeah, it was an emotional read. And think it, was also like a ⁓ good feel kind of book, which could use a little bit more of, think. ⁓ So all, yeah, just five stars. I mean, it's just business as usual in the United States today. So it was.

Kristy (06:44)
Is there, is there stuff going on right now?

I

Jon (06:53)
It was fabulous. I thoroughly enjoyed this book. Five stars.

Kristy (06:58)
love this book as well. Well, I don't want to put words in your mouth. I don't know. Did you say love? I think you said, really like this book. So maybe you're not quite there yet with it. Maybe you haven't reached that point. You're still sussing it out.

Jon (07:05)
Sure.

Kristy (07:13)
I love the book.

It gave me a book hangover. And what I mean by that for me is that it's just one of those books that I kept thinking about after reading it. Like I'm still thinking about it. I'm still thinking about how Grace and Rocky are doing on

Jon (07:34)
Erid.

Kristy (07:35)
Erid, thank you.

I love the characters. I love the science that there's a lot of science and math, which I have a question about and we'll discuss in this book, which I think the book is wildly popular, but there are some negative reviews about it. And I do wonder if that has to do with it because there is a lot of pages spent talking about math problems and science problems. And I think that's probably some people like whatever their eyes glaze over, which is fine.

but I just really loved it. I enjoyed learning, like, I don't know, say learning, but hearing about the science behind and like the thought process behind that and then falling in love with these characters and the story itself and realizing that it's not about a story that's the journey to save Earth.

is another type of story. And I just thought it was like really beautifully written. I had not read anything else by Andy Weir. I will be reading The Martian now, which he also wrote. I also have not seen that movie, but I'll probably watch that afterward too. But I'm really excited for that. And I'm excited to get into some of these discussion questions.

Jon (08:47)
Indeed.

Kristy (08:48)
Every time you say indeed, I think about that. Indeed commercial. Indeed you do.

All right, Project Hail Mary opens with Ryland Grace waking up alone with no memory of who he is or why he's there. Did you find yourself invested in Grace as a main character right away or did that develop over time?

Jon (09:08)
I was definitely invested very early in this book, though, I would say the first few pages I was a little disoriented, which I think is might be intentional, because it's probably how he felt waking up as well.

I mean, how can you not feel for a guy who doesn't who wakes up doesn't know where he is doesn't know what his name is you got a robot asking him what two plus two is he's got tubes coming out of every orifice of his body and patches all over like there was there was definitely instant like what is happening was going on and

Kristy (09:41)
Yeah.

Jon (09:44)
you're figuring out along along with them. thought that was just a really crafty way to sort of like tell the story and introduce us to this character in this way. yeah, from the get go, I was I was engaged with with Ryland.

Kristy (10:01)
Yeah.

I would say same. Like I felt immediately invested, but I think I also, now that you say it or naming it, felt the disorientation of like what is going on. I think namely because, not how the story went in my head because you hear, or you like read what it's about and...

I don't know, it just drops you into a different part of the story than I thought we would be dropped into. I don't know if that's right or wrong, feel like he's introduced to us as not some kind of space hero. He is introduced to us in a way he doesn't seem like ultra competent. He's confused. He's scared.

He's panicking. mean, that felt very relatable. I mean, if I woke up in space with two dead bodies next to me, I would not be very cool about that.

Jon (10:58)
Yeah, and then to learn that like, not only are you in space, but you're not even close to your own galaxy or solar system or whatever. Yeah.

Kristy (11:04)
Yeah, you're not at the moon, which

is obviously very far away as we're learning very recently with Artemis II. But yeah, you're not even in your own galaxy. And then as his memories start coming back and he realizes like, he's just a regular guy talks about his muscles a lot, even though he doesn't really remember having them. He's a teacher. ⁓ it just made him seem even like more relatable and human and like,

He's not the hero you're expecting to be in space to, you know, save the earth, so to speak.

Jon (11:40)
Yeah, 100 % agree.

Kristy (11:41)
So one of the things that stands out in the book is how approachable the science feels, which I kind of already talked about a little bit, but did you find yourself engaged by the scientific problem solving or did it feel overwhelming to you?

Jon (11:53)
I think I was more engaged than overwhelmed. did find myself pausing at a time, or rewinding at a time, because I wanted to understand, or like make sure I didn't miss something, or was like, is this going to be important later? But I never felt that it was spoken to in such a way where couldn't at least grasp.

Kristy (12:09)
Mm.

Jon (12:18)
the concept or what was happening or what he was the problem he was trying to solve. didn't necessarily know how to or have to understand how he was solving it ⁓ through the quotients and formulas and whatever other quotients isn't a word I don't think. But

Kristy (12:31)
you

Jon (12:35)
I was like, I understand how he got there. okay. I understand like, why he needed to do that in order to understand. Yeah. So I actually really enjoyed that piece of the story. It I also feel like it gave him as he was figuring those problems out, it almost gave him credibility to help me believe that he could do what he needed to do. And so

Kristy (12:40)
You were following the breadcrumbs. Yeah.

Do it. Yeah. That's a great point.

Jon (13:00)
that it wasn't just like, blind luck, or, you know, all of a he knew how to fly a spaceship or something like he, you as he was rebuilding those memories through this math and science of like, okay, it's very plausible that he could like, survive and do this on his own.

Kristy (13:17)
Yeah. Real quick. meant to, I should have said this, I guess, with the first question and talking about him being relatable, but I cackled when he has no memories waking up the computer who was, you know, asked him two plus two and then ask some what his name was. And he's already had all these thoughts in his head. And he says, I speak English. I think in Imperial terms, I'm white. Is my name, he's like, is it Jon?

Jon (13:46)
Yeah, that was pretty funny. ⁓

Kristy (13:47)
I'm like, basic what I do name, Jon.

Yeah.

Well, back to this question, I agree with how you feel and how you felt while you were reading it. It has a lot of math and sciences we've already talked about. math equations, physics, biology, other sciences I probably can't even name, but I think that what made the book truly brilliant is that Andy Weir does a great job of explaining these concepts in a way that allows you to follow the logic.

just like you were saying, without needing to grasp every detail. You just know that it's bad, bad, bad. And you don't need to understand the science on a deep level. I mean, there are plenty of times where I was like listening and following his reasoning, and then I was like, ⁓ that's not good. And so it didn't feel intimidating. It almost felt like I was there problem solving, even though there's no way I could do those math equations.

Jon (14:32)
Yeah.

Right.

Kristy (14:54)
but I felt like I was able to draw some of the same conclusions that, know, Grace is drawing as he's, you know, moving through this journey and like learning what's going on and like why he's there.

Jon (15:05)
Yeah, totally felt the same way.

Kristy (15:07)
The book balances high-stake tension with humor. Did the humor impact the pacing and tone of the story for you?

Jon (15:14)
the humor in this book was spot on for me. And I, this is definitely not a comedy book or anything like that. But what I think the humor did was it was delivered through a part of his personality. Like it was just who he was and how he engaged with both humans and, you know, later on with Rocky that

Yeah, helped lighten the severity and some of the moments or whatever, but it just made again, it was another trait that made him relatable, likable, feel real feel like he wasn't just like this stuffy scientist or this, know, rigid astronaut or you know, military person or whatever it might be like it was it was

Kristy (15:53)
Yeah.

He wasn't yow.

Jon (16:01)
Right? wasn't Yeah, yeah.

So I love the humor. like many of us use humor as a defense mechanism of when something stressful or unknown or scary or whatever. that 100 % came through in the book. So

Kristy (16:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think the humor is probably one of our, like my favorite part of the book and how it just brings the story together. mean, you're in a situation where the stakes are incredibly high. Humanity is facing extinction, but Grace is able to find like humor in those moments. And also like we're learning about all those things while he's gaining, regaining his memories. And there's a lot of humor in that. I mean, he wakes up naked and he's grabs.

like a bed sheet and he calls it his toga and he just like talks about tucking stuff in his toga. Like there's just like all these like really cute moments and you know, Grace's inner dialogue and like his commentary. just, it felt like that moved the story forward, like his excitement as he's making these discoveries, like it breaks up the tension of

Jon (16:50)
yeah.

Kristy (17:09)
how high stakes things are. And I think that maybe without it, the story would have felt really heavy. And even like thinking about it now, all that science stuff would have probably felt very different because as Ryland is explaining it to us, you can hear his excitement and he's like, you know, doing the math and equations. And again, his memory is still fuzzy. So he's like, I don't even know how I know this. just like know that I know it.

So I think that would even made like the science and math a little duller in the story if there wasn't that injected humor in there as well.

Jon (17:42)
it was great. It was just the right amount and it didn't take away from the seriousness or severity of what the mission that he was on. It just helped pull us along with him.

Kristy (17:55)
Yeah.

So the story is told with a dual timeline, which we've read before, we even read this season. And I remember on one of the books, you made a comment that as you were reading, you're like, no, no, I want to go back to the other timeline. Like, I don't care about this one. So I'm just wondering if Grace's present mission and his returning memories, like, did you enjoy how that story unfolded or did you find yourself enjoying one part of the story more than the other?

Jon (18:09)
Okay.

I think what's unique about this book in the dual timeline is it doesn't feel to me, it didn't feel like it was two storylines that we were waiting to sort of like merge and then move forward.

it was us experiencing his return of memories. And so it didn't necessarily feel like a past timeline to get us to the current, current time. was, it was more of an avenue or a mechanism to bring us along and like, as he was remembering things or as, as he was remembering things, don't know what other

Kristy (18:47)
Mm.

Jon (18:58)
to say it, we were getting that as well. And it was through this mechanism of a, of a dual timeline. I enjoyed both. I more about each other. People that were part of this mission that got them to space in the first place and Stratt I thought was awesome in her own like weird unique

Kristy (18:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jon (19:17)
So for me, it worked.

anyway, what about you? What did you think of the timelines and the kind of back and forth?

Kristy (19:26)
I felt like it unfolded like a puzzle, which not surprisingly, I love puzzles. So I loved it. I feel like at the beginning, you're thinking as you're learning about the mission and why he's there, you're thinking, wow, this is a person who volunteered for a one-way space ticket. And then you start learning like, okay, he's not part of the original crew. So something had to happen for him to go on this mission. So...

I just feel like Andy Weir does a really great job of building that tension and giving you like a little nibble of what the next piece of the story is going to be, but not the whole thing so that you can, I guess, be along for the space ride as it's unfolding. But yeah, I think it really worked. It was done really well.

while I love parts of like the current timeline, I also just really enjoyed the characters that were in the other one as well.

Jon (20:22)
Yeah.

Moving on.

Kristy (20:24)
All right, the communication between Grace and Rocky is a big part of the book. What did you think about how their relationship developed despite the language and biological barriers?

Jon (20:34)
I think this ties back to the science question as well and how we were brought along on Grace's rediscovery of what he was able to do and how smart he actually was with everything because it made when he met Rocky, it made it feel plausible and realistic that like he could come up with a way, have the tools and come up with a way to

Kristy (20:55)
have the tools, yeah.

Jon (21:00)
create a voice and like build this shared language between the two of them. But I also when I was reading it was like, holy shit, that would be so hard. Not the not the technical piece, but just like, how do even start that? Like, you know, he's very basic, like one, and then you know, that's how and you have to assume that

Kristy (21:12)
hard.

Yeah. One. Yep.

That's universal. ⁓

Jon (21:25)
that's universal and rocky

but understand like here's my sound for for what that is. So it was a really interesting uncovering of that shared language. And really enjoyed it. I thought that was just very clever and plausible, you know, in this in this world of science fiction that we're reading and

it was a way to show how two completely different species and communication styles could come together in an understanding and then also discover that they're actually not that

different. And they talk about it in the book where they're talking about how, how are we so like, evolutionary, evolutionary, close or similar? You know, despite their worlds are so far apart, and their different ecosystems. And so I thought that was like a really interesting little nugget in the book to a little sidebar story of just like, are they the same? And then they talk about the science behind it and stuff. But anyway,

Kristy (22:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yep. And the same with

the astrophage too. Like had the same evolutionary markers or whatever it is. Cells.

Jon (22:37)
Yeah, right.

Kristy (22:40)
did have some similar thoughts to you that, wow, it would be really difficult for them, you know, to communicate. Are they, you know, even like...

gestures and like things that are very common to us as humans, like those aren't necessarily universal with other life forms. So.

I had, I think a little bit, I don't want to say skepticism, like, okay, is this probable because this happened, but I kept reminding myself like Rocky and Grace are a lot smarter than your average person or a lot smarter than most of the people like on our planet. So it stands to reason that they're working off a different level of intelligence and would be able to compute those things and figure out those things faster than like a normal person would.

Jon (23:16)
Sure.

Kristy (23:27)
I did take that throughout the story, but either way, would be incredibly difficult to do that. But like you were saying, was the, we're more alike than we realize was, I think, you know, the theme through them building their friendship and what they were there for. ⁓ yeah, I didn't expect myself to get emotionally attached to an alien made of rocks, but

Here we are.

Jon (23:55)
Here we are.

Kristy (23:59)
Fist my bump.

Jon (24:00)
It's still wrong.

Kristy (24:06)
There are several moments when things seem solved only for a new problem to emerge. Did the constant problem solving keep you engaged or did it feel like too much?

Jon (24:15)
Good question. I, it definitely got me engaged because it felt very realistic. You're in space, everything is unpredictable. And so unknown. And yeah, to me, that was like,

Kristy (24:27)
unknown.

Jon (24:33)
a great progression to the story. I never at one point did I feel like, my god, another problem surfaced. Like, get over it or move the story along or anything like that. I never felt that it always felt very intentional. Very likely to happen. And

Kristy (24:42)
Yeah.

Jon (24:51)
Yeah, it just felt real, you know, in a sci fi world, it felt, it felt real. That's that would happen.

Kristy (25:01)
Yeah, I agree with everything you said. Like specifically, there were several moments, both like in the present timeline while they're on the spaceship and Grace is thinking about it. And then the past time where someone like Stratt would be like, well, a lot of things could still go wrong. So the fact that a lot of things did go wrong, it felt really genuine to the story.

And the fact that a lot of things did go wrong just for me felt not just like genuine, but as I said, like these are parts unknown. So of course things are going to go wrong because we cannot prepare for what's going to happen in space. Like we don't travel in space. No one has ever been that far. So if it would have been too smooth sailing, then it definitely would have felt for me too fantastical that like, okay, this is probably...

not how things would have gone. Like even when both Rocky and Grace get injured, I mean, and they have like the burns on them and they're, you know, Rocky ends up kind of fighting for his life. And

And it just added this layer of complexity like, yeah, what would you do and how would you figure it out? But back to what we were saying earlier, like Grace is set up as this character who is an expert like on these things. So it really makes it feel believable that he would be able to figure these things out as the story goes along.

Jon (26:23)
Yeah.

Kristy (26:24)
So the reveal about how Grace ended up on the mission adds complexity to his character. Did that moment change how you viewed him as a protagonist?

Jon (26:34)
Not really, but I think it helped me understand his decision at the end and why he chose the direction that he Not only just because don't think he knows what version of Earth would be left when he got back and what would he be returning to,

just that like he's almost rediscovered himself in a way or

Yeah, for me, I don't know that it changed my point of view as him as as a partakenist, but it just like I said, helped me understand why he chose the direction at the end. But what about you? ⁓

Kristy (27:10)
Yeah.

I think it absolutely made, changed how I viewed him, but I don't think it made me value him any less. I felt really bad for him when you learn that. think that...

He doesn't initially volunteer. And I think that makes him honestly much more human than probably I viewed him in the beginning of the book. Like he's not fearless. He's scared. He's hesitant. And then for me, like that feels like the correct reaction to being launched into space and trying to save humanity when you're not an astronaut. Like, yeah, I'd be freaking the fuck out too. Like, no, I don't want this.

Jon (27:52)
Right.

Kristy (27:55)
But I think for me, and we've talked about this offline, that that's what makes his eventual growth that you already know. So you already have that, but that's what makes it so satisfying because he does not start as a hero. He becomes one. And so that journey becomes more meaningful. And I just really feel like that is what this story is about.

Jon (28:17)
Yeah, yep. I agree 100%. It's about his journey, not necessarily. It's not necessarily about the mission to save Earth. It's about this journey of this character.

Kristy (28:28)
Yeah. So one more question before we transition to talking specifically about the film, but the book explores themes of cooperation and survival across species. How did Grace and Rocky working together impact the overall message of the story?

Jon (28:43)
I think it was the overall message of the story. think that there to such different, not just different cultures, but like different species, different languages entirely, and each finding their own way to.

come closer together through curiosity and interest as opposed to fear or resentment or anything else. so yeah, mean, alongside his own personal journey, I think the two of them their friendship and their shared language and their realization that they're really not that different.

personality wise or evolutionary or whatever it might be. And so it was, it was just really fascinating.

Kristy (29:30)
Yeah, I definitely feel like it's the emotional heart of the story itself, as you're saying, and the idea that two completely different species,

different biologies, different communication styles, different environments, like they can still figure out how to work together. And it was heartwarming. It was honestly a little humbling that humans needed an alien to demonstrate effective teamwork, but here we are.

Jon (29:55)
Here we are.

Come on down, Rocky. We could use you right now.

Kristy (29:59)
Yeah, no shit.

Yup.

All right, so now we're going to talk about the film. So if you have not seen it yet and you don't want spoilers, here is another opportunity to take the exit on the right to the next galaxy.

So the book relies heavily on inner monologue and scientific problem solving. How do you think the film translated Grace's thought process to screen?

Jon (30:29)
So when we left the theater, you actually had a great response to this. And when I read the question, I'm like, oh, I don't want to, I could, I could steal her answer or I could just push it back over to you and give you credit for the answer that you had. Cause it was pretty solid. So I'll, you can have, yeah, the floor is yours.

Kristy (30:35)
hahahaha

Thank you. Thank you for not taking my answer. Thank

you. So yes, this was one of the biggest questions I had going into the movie because in the book, Grace spends so much time in his head thinking about these problems. So I had heard or had read somewhere that

God, Ryan Gosling spends a lot of time on screen by himself. So I was thinking like, is this going to be Tom Hanks and Castaway situation? is it not going to be a lot of dialogue?

could see him just like maybe problem solving out loud and like talking to himself and maybe doing like something a mad scientist would do, which would probably have been accurate given like the stakes of the situation. But whoever made the decision to have the video diaries, genius.

We talked about some other mechanisms for internal dialogue or first person narration. And this is probably, I think, the best of the season and of the book to films that we reviewed, I thought. I mean, having them go, like the diaries, like go back with the Beatles, like, I just thought it was great. A plus plus, plus plus plus.

Jon (32:00)
It was awesome.

I agree. was and it didn't feel I think it didn't feel forced either. Like it felt like a very real scenario that he would do or capture. He also talked to the shuttle AI machine robot that he called Mary in some parts of the movie as another sort of mechanism of him like problem solving out loud and that sort of thing. But yeah, the video diaries were were just stellar and they were

Kristy (32:21)
I like that too.

Jon (32:33)
comical and like in the movie when they had like Rocky in them and he was giving like a dialogue part two. you hear this right now? Yeah, I can hear this right now. Yeah, it was probably one of the best mechanisms and fitting of the...

Kristy (32:40)
Who are you talking to, Grace?

Yeah.

the situation.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Jon (32:59)
the situation and the story itself. So it was

pretty, awesome.

Kristy (33:05)
Good decision.

A huge part of the book's charm is the humor in Grace's narration. How did you feel that played out on film?

Jon (33:13)
my god, they could not have cast anyone better than Ryan Gosling for this character. He was perfect.

Kristy (33:17)
I 100 % agree. I

felt if you take all the characters that Ryan Gosling has ever played in his entire life, that is Ryland Grace. Like I just, I felt that. I felt that actually like knowing he was playing him on screen, felt that as I was reading, especially with the humor.

As I was watching, was just like, this is all his characters wrapped up into one. And I don't know, it just felt so good.

Jon (33:50)
It did it was it was just spot on his like intonation of his dialogue, his delivery of the comedy and like it was just all felt so natural and smooth and

I don't even know any other word. It just felt natural. It just felt, it was awesome. Exactly. Just hands. ⁓ good times.

Kristy (34:08)
It was awesome. Amaze, amaze, amaze!

So speaking of jazz

hands, how well do you think the film portrayed Rocky both visually and emotionally?

Jon (34:25)
This was interesting. I really didn't. So we did. We were very intentional to not watching the previews to like not immerse ourselves in the film until we read the book and could go see it ourselves. And so when I was, it was because it was everywhere.

Kristy (34:39)
Which was difficult because it was everywhere.

Jon (34:43)
And so when I'm listening to it and reading it, you know, you're obviously like, I'm projecting my own vision of how Andy Weir's describes his character. And then on the film, you're seeing another person's interpretation of it. I actually thought it was at first I was

I don't know what the right adjective is, but the way it was portrayed, it felt almost too puppety ⁓ initially on screen, but that smoothed out over the course of the film. But again, I think like when you're first introduced to Rocky on the film, I'm fighting against the visual that I had in my head of him from reading it. And so like I needed to push that thought.

Kristy (35:09)
Hmm, on screen?

Jon (35:28)
out of my head and then just like embrace what I'm seeing on screen. And so once I got past that, I thought it was great. think they did a good job of not trying to make it make him look.

like us humans would want an alien to look like to have a face or to have like some sort of representation of a face or anything like that. Like I thought they did a good job of making very true to the way Andy Weir described him in the book. So

Kristy (35:45)
be green.

Jon (35:55)
we've talked in a couple of episodes where, know, you have this I don't remember what it's called, but you have a you struggle to like visualize things with with great clarity. And so what was your experience of that? Like

Kristy (36:00)
Aphantasia. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I couldn't form an image in my own head because I don't have one to know. when Andy Weir describes,

Rocky as a spider looking thing made of rocks. Like that's kind of what I thought. I just was thinking of like a giant spider who's brown, honestly, like maybe scaly. That was my extent of what Rocky looked like. So for me, it actually came through beautifully on screen. Like it felt really believable. And I was like, yeah, that's what he would look like. And especially like the fingers that he had and how it like kind of looked like a hand, but then he was like,

Jon (36:44)
Mm.

Kristy (36:47)
had mobility in them. I thought that was really cool. But I think what was the best is that, or it came through, came through.

on screen or was conveyed on screen, I guess is what I'm trying to say is Rocky's intelligence, Rocky's humor, Rocky's warmth. Like that was very visible on screen, even though he he looks like a rock. Like,

this isn't like specific to Rocky, but one thing I thought the film did well is in the book, he has like hamster tunnels that he creates and then they don't do that on film, but they have them like rolling in a hamster ball. That was a lot of fun. Like when he first enters the spaceship and he's just like ping pong, like pinballing everywhere and like, why your spaceship? Why your spaceship so messy? Like,

Jon (37:24)
Mm-hmm.

It's like all over.

Yeah.

Kristy (37:41)
I was

like, ⁓ that's total Rocky energy and it's different, but it felt very cool. I really liked that.

Jon (37:48)
Mm hmm.

Kristy (37:51)
The relationship between Grace and Rocky develops gradually in the book. Did the film give that relationship enough time to feel meaningful?

Jon (37:58)
I think so. I think as much as a film could. I mean, I had some tears rolling down my cheeks at the end. So there is definitely some emotional connection there to the to the characters. I think they the way that they sort of spliced the development of their communication and how that evolved. liked I liked the scene in the movie when they're when they're choosing voices for the character for him. She can do anything.

Kristy (38:21)
Yeah.

Meryl Streep, she can do anything.

Jon (38:27)
Such a nice touch.

thought it was very meaningful. I could see them risking their lives for one another when they realized that Rocky, why he chose to like break out of his cages and save.

grace when he was injured. So yeah, it was all kinds of feels and good.

Kristy (38:55)
Yeah, I agree. mean, it was condensed because it has to be because it's two and a half hour film, which is, mean, by all film standards, that's lengthy.

Jon (39:00)
totally.

Kristy (39:07)
But yeah, it is condensed, but I still felt the, you're saying, like had a tear running down my cheek and I felt the emotional payoff when you get to the end of the story and you're, I think there's plenty of time to see and watch their friendship grow. It to me didn't feel as much of a ride as the book, but it was still heartwarming.

Jon (39:27)
Yeah, yes it was.

Kristy (39:31)
The emotional arc of grace from reluctant participant to someone willing to sacrifice everything is central to the Did that transformation feel as impactful in the film?

Jon (39:41)
I don't think as impactful, but it doesn't mean it wasn't impactful. I think it's because of what you're just saying about like, you only had so much time in a movie, you don't have as many pages to sort of all the other characters or or his I shouldn't say develop the other characters but

after he remembers how he got there, you have more pages in the book where he's processing that information. I think you don't necessarily get that on film, like you have that moment where the realization moment on film, but I don't think that lingers or you don't sit with it as long as in the book. So I think for me it was, it had an impact, but as with most, the book had a stronger impact than, than it. So, yeah.

Did you feel the same or what did you think of the impact? I know you made a comment about it after we left the theater.

Kristy (40:36)
Yeah, I wouldn't say this is a miss in the film, but this is probably...

I'll say one of my biggest criticisms. This is definitely where I feel like the film just lacked compared to the in a real way. But I don't think it was like, it just totally missed this. didn't get it. just, you can't get it at the depth that you do in the book. So one scene that I thought of specifically is when he's with Stratt she's basically like, you're going on this mission.

And he's yelling at her, you're murdering me. You're murdering me. Like I was crying during that scene when I was reading it because he didn't want to die, but she knew he had to and there's no one else to send. And so I think the author or Andy Weir has a lot of moments in the story where Stratt and Grace discuss her authority. And so you actually see it in that moment, like really play out in a very high stakes way. And

all of that like built like all of those moments are all of that authority like built to that moment.

That was honestly probably the hardest decision she's ever had to make. And while I think you get some of that in the film, like there's no way it can create the emotional depth that the book does because we didn't see some of those other moments where she has to assert authority. Like there's the, when she goes to court or when she just like goes to a jail and like

literally takes someone from the jail who's serving, think like a life sentence and it's not in this country and some other country. And she's like, you're with us now. Like she is asserts this tremendous, the most, you know, like amount of authority that anyone has on the planet. And then she sends someone to die and he does not get a choice. So like that, you just, it did not translate on film for me.

Jon (42:22)
Right.

Kristy (42:40)
But I think there was a moment that I don't want to say made up for this, but help, I think for a viewer, if you haven't read the book to get to like that emotion and helps move the film along without having some of the depth you get in the book.

when the other astronauts are talking about giving up their lives and Yao says, Grace just hasn't found the reason for it. I feel like that helps the arc of that emotion and how Ryland gets to where he needs to go because he doesn't have a reason yet. He thought it was, I need to get back for my kids. I can't leave for them.

but what he ends up discovering is that like he finds his friendship with Rocky and that is worth sacrificing himself to save not just Rocky, but like Rocky's other plant, like a whole planet of other people that he's unwilling to let die. Yet he's not willing to leave earth because he doesn't have emotional attachments to anyone on earth. He does with Rocky.

Jon (43:47)
Yeah.

Great point.

Kristy (43:49)
What did you think about how the film handled the ending? Did it land emotionally the same way the book did?

Jon (43:55)
I think so. mean, I had a few tears trickling down my face at the end.

Yeah, I think it did. I mean, again, it's one of those like, can't quite get to the level of the book. But I thought the film definitely could stand on stone on its own with the ending is just like, you got you understood why he made the decision that he did. And see the visualization of him on Erid and the world that they built for him and

he gets to be a teacher still there. I thought that all hit pretty, pretty solid for me. Did you feel the same or?

Kristy (44:37)
I felt the same about that, about him being on Erid and like learning that and having his me burger, which is gross, but fine. And I said, I wasn't going to say this about the other thing, but this is my biggest criticism in the film is that

Jon (44:46)
you

Kristy (44:55)
They showed the Beatles making it back to earth and they showed Stratt watching the video diaries and that they're starting to like work on the Taumiba because that's not what the story is about. Like the, me, the story is about Grace's journey from, you know, zero to hero, finding something that is worth giving up his life for and

Jon (45:04)
Yeah.

Kristy (45:20)
like the emotional connection between like the two species. Like it's not about saving earth. And I felt, and while we hear that on Erid that like the sun's not dead yet and that they have the project Hail Mary ready that if he wants to go back, can, but that didn't feel like the point. so Grace, sorry, Strat watching the videos and like,

Jon (45:26)
Do you feel? Go ahead.

Kristy (45:48)
learning that grace is like fine or whatever like I don't know I just felt that that's not what the story is I didn't need to see that.

Jon (45:55)
Did you feel like it was did you feel like it was a distraction from grace's storyline? it pulled you out of that emotional moment.

Kristy (46:01)
I just felt like it was added

so that like, ⁓ earth is saved. Like everything's going to be fine. And I don't think that's what the book is about. This is a, I'm acknowledging this as like a personal preference too, that I think.

Jon (46:14)
Yeah, definitely not.

This whole podcast is a personal preference, by the way.

Kristy (46:23)
That's 100 % accurate. I think that we've actually talked about this on the show that a lot of people want their stories like meet with a little bow. And I like stories that don't always have happy endings. I like stories that are messy. I like stories that are complicated. And I don't think this story is about, you know, saving humanity and making sure like the earth is there. I think it's about something

bigger than that and a different, I should say a different journey than that, because obviously billions of people dying is tragic, acknowledging that. But that's not for me what the story is about. And that felt like a too little neat little bow on it, that those Beatles did make it back to earth, that Stratt did watch his video, that like they're all hunky dory, there's no hard feelings. Like I didn't need that.

Jon (47:15)
I guess that's fair. I didn't have that reaction. thought it was actually. That's true. You heard it here folks. didn't mind it. actually kind of enjoyed Maybe I mean, hearing you say that, sure. Maybe it's a little like too neatly tied up,

Kristy (47:21)
That's cause you're not a psych, psycho.

So, did you prefer the book or the film?

Jon (47:49)
I plead the fifth.

Kristy (47:50)
⁓ no! He wants to say the film but it's a book

podcast!

Jon (47:58)
I know. mean, honestly, yeah. they're just both so, so good. I don't know that I could pick. well, I guess maybe I'll say, yes, you're right. I'm probably leaning towards the movie because I could absolutely see myself watching the movie a couple other times. I don't know that I would read the twice, but that's also just kind of me. Like I'm more of a movie person than a book person.

Kristy (47:59)
Your no answer is an answer.

Hmm.

I'm already looking forward to reading the book

again. Yeah.

Jon (48:25)
I totally believe that.

So yeah, I mean, that might be my answer. But I think it's laced through the lens of like, I'm just a movie, more movie person than a book person. And I would absolutely watch this multiple times.

Kristy (48:42)
Yeah, I think that's totally fair. And I think it's because it is a good film, not just because you're more of a film person, because there's plenty of books this season that were like trash.

Jon (48:55)
Yeah, and Ryan Gosling. mean, that's not awful.

Kristy (48:57)
Yeah.

I mean, I personally, you know, I'm just like a book person. I'm going to get more. I'm going to leave the book with more than I'm going to leave the film with. But if I had to pick one, I'd pick the book because that's my preference. But I'm fully acknowledging that the movie is a hundred percent worth seeing. Like if you a book person, but you want to see a great film, like this is definitely worth two and a half hours of your time.

Jon (49:24)
Yeah. And the 40 bucks at a theater for two tickets and some popcorn. yeah. That's right. Not even the tickets. Good point.

Kristy (49:28)
No, that was just the popcorn and drinks. was $40. That didn't even include our tickets. Yeah. I think the

tickets were like $12. They weren't too bad. think that's kind of normal.

All right. Any other final thoughts on the book? Maybe final thoughts on the film? Would you recommend one or both to our listeners?

Jon (49:49)
Definitely recommend either one, whatever your genre is. Maybe we talk about ⁓ some women write in and be like, how do I get my husband to read books? Maybe go see this movie with him and then be like, hey, read the book too, or whatever. If you enjoyed the movie, you'll like the book. I don't know, something like that.

is cool to see someone else's interpretation of, especially if you read the book first, you build your own interpretation or like visualizations of what these things are, and then go in and see someone else's interpretation. You're like, that's pretty cool. ⁓ So anyway, those are my final thoughts. Do it do yourself a favor.

you know, get left behind on earth and freeze to death. Go see this movie. It's worth it.

Kristy (50:35)
I think that was really smart that this is probably a book that could get some more men into reading that maybe aren't. And I've said this before, like, I think audio books are a great way to, you know, read something that is maybe less intimidating for some people, especially if a job where you can listen or you go to the gym or, you know, take walks. Like, those are easy ways to fit in reading. And the audio book for this book specifically is

really great. So if you were trying to get your husband to read, this might be the one to do it.

Jon (51:05)
It's really good.

Yep. That's good. And don't scare them off with sci-fi. Like it's not a sci-fi like Star Trek sci-fi. It's just like, it's just good.

Kristy (51:19)
Have you heard that when you

use the term sci-fi, it like dilutes the genre that we should say science fiction? Have you ever heard that? I read that somewhere and I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I just wonder if that's true. I have always looked at sci-fi as just like a shortened way to say science fiction. It's not cheapening it. Cheapening it, that's what I heard.

Jon (51:26)
I did not know.

That's interesting.

Totally.

Yeah. I mean, even, I mean, the whole television channel is called, well, I mean, you read the logo. To me, it reads a SYFY, but S Y F I, but it's yeah, it's sci-fi. So no, I hadn't heard that. Right. S I, S I it's yeah, five, yeah. Yeah. the channel they rebrand when they rebranded, they shortened it short shorter. So good job.

Kristy (51:49)
All right.

Yeah.

Well, sigh science. Anyway.

Oh, S-Y-F-I. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, is S-Y-F-I. You're right. Yep. Yeah. Okay. I'm with you. I'm firing on all cylinders now.

Well, as mentioned, this is our last book this season, but we will have a season four recap two weeks from now as our final episode. And we're going to discuss all the books and films then. And from there, we will take a break. And then season five will come late this summer. as a reminder, You can keep up with our episodes by following us on Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube. And as always, don't forget.

that a free way to support our show is by leaving us a review or rating us on Apple podcasts. If you don't want to us, but you have a question or feedback on the show, you can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you.

Jon (52:51)
we would and even go ahead, try to tell another book lover about the show. Maybe they'll find a book that we covered that they read and like, I wonder what their thoughts are. And they can have a listen and be like, they were so smart and spot on. I should listen to more of their episodes. Maybe that'll happen.

Kristy (53:10)
Yes.

We can hope. Well, I guess that's it.

Jon (53:14)
Wanking up.

That is another one in the books and off to the stars.

Kristy (53:23)
good one. Well, who knows? Maybe this will be the one your husband reads.

Jon (53:28)
You should. It's solid.

Kristy (53:30)
All right. Bye bye bye.

Jon (53:32)
Well.

Amaze, amaze, amaze.

Kristy (53:36)
Fist my bump.

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