My Friends

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described, hilarious, and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:10)
And that's me. Each episode we'll dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and surprising insights on the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:18)
We're here to explore everything from timeless classics to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:26)
So settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:46)
Hello listeners and welcome to season three, episode seven of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy...

Jon (00:52)
And I am husband Jon, the one that Kristy makes read all of these books every other week 24-7.

Kristy (00:59)
It can't be 24-7, it's only every other week.

Jon (01:02)
It feels like 24-7. It's like, here, this, here, read this, here, read this.

Kristy (01:06)
You carry the burden well.

Jon (01:08)
Thank you.

Kristy (01:10)
Well, this week we'll be discussing My Friends by Fredrik Backman, a book about an inspiring artist who traces a mysterious seaside painting back to the summer friendship that saved a group of lost teens and discovers how art can keep a bond alive.

Jon (01:24)
If there is ever a spectrum between books, it's this one and the last one we did with The Love Hypothesis. This one was so heavy and just like, yeah, it was really heavy.

Kristy (01:36)
This

book was so heavy and it was really heavy. That is all.

Jon (01:41)
So

descriptive. ⁓ So we should have some very interesting dialogue about this book.

Kristy (01:48)
Yes. So why did I pick this book for Jon? Well, this is actually a book that I had not read before recommending it to Jon. I had been seeing it everywhere. I have read several of Fredrik Backman's other books, including Anxious People, A Man Called Ova, and Beartown, and had just really enjoyed his writing previously and was seeing this book everywhere. And since I enjoyed those other books, I thought, hey, this was a great book for us to read together.

Jon (02:16)
That's cool. We actually did read this one together, which doesn't happen very often. Thanks to our road trip from DC to Detroit, we were actually able to listen to this entire book, front and back from there and back. So we actually did get to listen to each other. I'm honestly still not sure what I'm going to say about this one. I definitely have some mixed feelings, but we'll get into that in due time. But before we get into any of those fun stuff, we want to let listeners know that the next, nope.

slash last episode this season is going to be our season recap. And from there, we're going to take a little break for the holidays, spend some time with family, and then come back to you all for season four in January.

Kristy (02:56)
bet you're so happy that my Christmas gift to you is no more required reading for the year.

Jon (03:04)
Yes, yes, I am. However, I can totally already see the fact of like, hey, we're in holiday break, but you should get ahead of your reading. You should.

Kristy (03:14)
You got to get ahead for season four. ⁓ Lord. What I have on the lineup already.

Jon (03:19)
I don't know, what do you got?

Kristy (03:21)
I actually didn't plan to say this, but speaking of season four, if there are any listeners out there that have recommendations of books that I should have Jon read for season four or that maybe I haven't read either and we should read together because you would think it would be a good discussion for us, then feel free to email us at booksimakemyhusbandread@gmail.com or you can send us a DM on Instagram or TikTok. And I would just love to hear from our listeners.

Jon (03:47)
on. Okay, that doesn't freak me out at all. That should be fun. also, this is fine. Everything's totally fine. If you're enjoying the show, please remember to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, or rate us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, even though Spotify is still evil, wherever you might be listening to this. Probably, probably, but a lot of people are on

Kristy (03:53)
in.

Always minimal.

Jon (04:13)
But it helps other people like you, other listeners like yourselves, discover our show and we greatly appreciate it.

Kristy (04:19)
Yes. Well, are you ready for that spoiler free book summary?

Jon (04:23)
No, but I guess we should probably do it anyway.

Kristy (04:26)
Most people don't even notice them. Three tiny figures sitting at the end of a long pier in the corner of one of the most famous paintings in the world. Most people think it's just a depiction of the sea. But Louisa, an aspiring artist herself, knows otherwise and she is determined to find out the story of these three enigmatic figures.

Jon (04:46)
25 years earlier in a distant seaside town, a group of teenagers find refuge from their bruising home lives by spending long summer days on an abandoned pier, telling silly jokes, sharing secrets and farting and committing small acts of rebellion. These lost souls find in each other a reason to get up each morning, a reason to dream and a reason to love.

Kristy (05:10)
Farting was a fair amount of... or storyline. But out of that, Summer emerges a transcendent work of art, a painting that will unexpectedly be placed into 18-year-old Louisa's care. She embarks on a surprise-filled cross-country journey to learn how the painting came to be and decide what to do with it. The closer she gets to the painting's birthplace, the more nervous she becomes about what she'll find. Louisa's proof that happy endings don't always take the form we expect.

Jon (05:12)
That's right.

Kristy (05:40)
in this stunning testament to the transformative, timeless power of friendship and art.

Jon (05:47)
And that is the summary of this book. So now listeners, from this point on, we shall have spoilers. They will be bright and colorful. And if you aren't a fan of art, you should probably just pause and exit now and come back when you find yourself cultured. Just kidding.

Kristy (06:10)
All right, you win first last time, so I will tell you what I think about this book.

Jon (06:15)
Thank God. So I can make up my thoughts before you finish.

Kristy (06:19)
Well, I honestly, you said this to me, I think yesterday, the day before when we were talking about when we were going to record and you said you didn't know what you were gonna say or rate the book or something like that. You said, I don't know how I feel about this book. And that's how I feel about this book. So I wrote a book review a couple of days ago. I ended up actually giving it three and a half stars. I rounded it up to four because you can't give half stars on good runs.

And I stick by that. I know that that is kind of an outlier. This book is rated well over four. So most people feel like it lies between four and five. But I found this other review as I was writing some of these questions and someone said, I found it equally impactful, but also exhausting. There were lines I wanted to save and savor. And yet there were moments I was ready to speed up. And that is in

like encapsulates how I felt about this book. Like there were so many times when we were listening to it, I even wrote down some of like the lines and quotes from the book that I thought were really impactful. And again, I wanted to like go back and like re-listen to them. And if I would have listened it, been listening by myself on audio, I would have done that, but I didn't want to ruin the experience or change the experience that you were having with the book. But there were plenty of moments like that. like, that was so good. I want to hear that again.

But yet there were times where I just felt disconnected. I'm like, this is just dragging on. Like, come on, let's get past this or this doesn't seem to have a meaningful impact on the story. And I wanted to just move on. So I felt the first half of the book was wonderful. I was so invested in the story. I was so invested in the characters. But then the second half, I don't think, I don't want to say it dragged on.

But the book itself, I think, could be shorter. And I just, I don't know, I just like didn't love it how I thought I was going to love it.

Jon (08:23)
Yeah, I think that's completely fair. think for me, you know this about me over the course of this little journey of ours, this little podcast journey. I love a good character-driven book. And that's all this book was. I felt it was all characters and a really soft plot. It was just about...

Kristy (08:40)
Totally.

Jon (08:48)
the story of this painting, the origin of this painting, and then all the characters that went into influencing the artist into this painting. yeah, I agree. I don't know that I would say it like I felt it dragged on, but it was definitely a slow burn for sure. Yeah, I don't know. It just didn't feel tied up. It didn't feel like the thread through the whole thing was strong enough to withhold the whole thing.

Kristy (09:17)
I I will also say this. There were no trigger warnings and there absolutely needs to be trigger warnings in this book because there was a lot of like trauma and... Yeah, child abuse and domestic violence and like a ⁓ lot of stuff going on. And I love books about found family. I love stories about unlikely friends, which we have here. For sure. that. Like actually that's one of my favorite things.

Jon (09:26)
really heavy.

Yeah, I agree.

Kristy (09:46)
Margo and the Hundred Years of Margo and Lenny. There's another book I read where this young girl and this guy are like delivering books and I can't remember the name of it, but it was just lovely. I love when young people make friends with old people. I just love that. And I really like Ted and Louisa's friendship, but there just wasn't enough of it.

Jon (10:08)
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Kristy (10:10)
All right, so let's dive in the questions. So the book is about friendship, broken homes and finding your people. Why did Kimkim, Joar, Ted and Ali share such a strong connection?

Jon (10:22)
I think for them, it was circumstance a little bit. I think it was the environment that they each sort of individually grew up in. I think when you're, it sounded like they came from a really small town or area. And so you're kind of, your friends are kind of forced upon you in scenarios like that. I would know. grew up. I do. And they each sort of had their own individual

Kristy (10:43)
Do you have any experience with that?

Jon (10:51)
version of a broken home. And I think they found solace in that I think they found comfort in each other's like

Not uniqueness, but like... What am I trying to think of? ⁓ Well, okay, I guess maybe let me say this. They each had a hole that they needed to fill within themselves, and I think they found that within one another. Like, there was Ted's, sort of... He was very shy and awkward, and he found a group of kids that would help him, like, come out of his shell, or like...

Joar was very rambunctious and chaotic, but Kimkim was kind of quiet and like reserved. And I think they found balance in all of those individual traits within each other. But there was like a connecting tissue of their home life or their like broken homes or their like circumstances, like I said. So I guess that would be my answer to that question. What do you, what do you think? What drew them together for you?

Kristy (12:00)
I mean, I think what drew them together is obviously they're kind of, they're all from broken homes in some capacity. They're kind of like misfits in a way. That's the word.

Jon (12:09)
Yes,

thank you. That's what I was looking for

Kristy (12:12)
But I think the reason their connection is so strong is because it's the only... When they're together with each other, it's like the only time they get to be kids. Like real kids. Good point. They're not dealing with the trauma at home. They don't feel like they have to come to the group and explain the trauma at home. Like the people know, or the other kids know they're supportive. They have their backs in whatever way they can. You have...

kids bringing others food when there's food scarcity at home for some of them. they can be themselves and not be embarrassed by it or judged by it. They're just like, these are my people and they're providing what I need. And I don't have to say, can I have food for my friend? I didn't get enough to eat at home. The friend's just like, here's some food or here's a safe space or they're encouraging each other's.

Jon (12:44)
They can like be themselves.

Kristy (13:05)
know, gifts and talents and things like that. So, I feel like they get to be kids when they're around each other. And that is so special because like said, each of them are coming from like broken homes, homes of trauma, homes of violence.

Jon (13:19)
Yeah, that's a great point. Yep. I would totally agree with that.

Kristy (13:23)
So shifting to our other timeline and our other main character, what are your thoughts about Louisa as a whole? How did she change from the beginning of the novel to the end?

Jon (13:32)
I Louisa was like an entertaining character. thought her spunk was pretty spot on for an 18 year old, 17, just turning 18 in the course of the book. I thought she brought a good, again, like kind of a balance with Ted in that dynamic too. Kind of like what I was mentioning with the kids and her like polar opposite of Ted. And I think they both like supported or not support each other, but balanced each other out. How did she change? I think...

The biggest change for her is probably just in a state of trust and also a state of grief. I think through her journey with Ted and through those stories, she was actually able to process the own grief that she was feeling and didn't know how to process or didn't know how to live with, with her friend Fish. And she was carrying all that guilt or weight or whatever it might be. And I think she was able to relinquish a lot of that through the course of the book.

through this journey that I kind of shared with her.

Kristy (14:31)
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think she saw almost like an example in Ted that he's been able to like, he's an adult processing this, but still having, you know, some similar feelings that like she had when Fish died. And he's having now or going through now with Kimkim dying. And I think she like looked to him to like how she lives with that going forward. But also I'm gonna say is that...

I feel like she lost Fish and she felt like Fish was her family and she felt like she couldn't get close to people because people just die. But she ends up finding a new family, you know, in a way. And she's, I guess, open to that where she's like kind of closed off before. And now she's like very open to it or like through this journey of her.

Jon (15:22)
Yeah, I agree. think another point to that too, is that she wound up, think through this journey, she discovered that not all men are evil. Men from a point as well, like she, you know, a kid of the foster system and that sort of thing. And she talks about all the abuse and things like that, that she survived over the course of her youth.

Kristy (15:31)
⁓ we haven't even...

Jon (15:46)
And she just had real trust issues with people and with men in particular, which was totally understandable given the stories that she shared. And so I think that wall for her softened as well that, you know, she was able to see men in a different light through Ted and through Joar and that sort of thing. So I think that's kind of another journey for her.

Kristy (16:09)
Yeah. So among our seaside teens, whose voice or struggle felt most vivid to you and why?

Jon (16:16)
I think the obvious answer there is Joar. I think his was definitely the most vivid. I think it was the most talked about. He was the most animated. It was his story with his parents, with his mom. His mom and dad were talked about the most throughout the whole book. His trauma in his home life were talked the most about. I think he was really kind of the crux of them, really the center cog of that entire group.

It's just really fascinating to hear a kid like that come from a place like he did, but be the one to push and promote everyone around him. He really had the most love to give, which is wild when you think about the home that he came from.

Kristy (16:59)
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I I felt terrible for him. I mean, more than halfway through the book, you know, you and I had even talked about like, either he's dead because his dad killed him, or maybe he kills his dad and he goes to jail. Like, I was fully expecting him to be mostly dead. And then he turns up and is alive and like the second half or third of the book. And I was like, ⁓ I was actually really surprised by that.

Jon (17:29)
really surprising, ⁓

Kristy (17:30)
He had

been in prison, so I think some of those, that violence he experienced as a child still had an impact on him as an adult and as a child. mean, he was getting in fights and were they for honorable reasons to defend his friends or defend his person? Like probably, but... Right, exactly. So, yeah, I don't know if I would call him like the cog, but as you say that I can see like that as part of the story. I wouldn't have thought that like while I was reading it.

Jon (17:48)
It's hard to tell.

Yeah, like for me listening to it, even though the story was really about Kimkim and this painting and the story of these four kids,

Kristy (18:08)
I don't know that the book is about Kimkim.

Jon (18:11)
Right, yeah. I mean, but you're kind of led to believe that because it's rooted in this painting and it's rooted about throughout that. But yeah, I feel like it's really about, well, I mean, I don't know how I want to say this, but I do feel like the main character in this book is Joar not Kimkim, not Louisa, not Ted. I really think he was like the main character in this book.

Kristy (18:33)
interesting.

Jon (18:35)
What are you thinking? I can see your brain waves moving.

Kristy (18:37)
Well, when you said it's about Kimkim, I disagree with that. I don't think the book's about Kimkim, and I actually don't even think the book's about the painting. I think the book is about the friendships.

Jon (18:50)
Sure. guess when I said that, mean like the plot or like the connecting tissue through the book was this painting or was Kim like Kimkim's character and like how he created this painting.

Kristy (19:02)
Yeah, like they're not a big, they're like a tiny part of the painting. And Louisa says that she's like, it's not a painting about the sea. Like only an adult would think that, cause adults are the worst, which is totally true. But the rest of the painting from Kimkim's point of view, who's the artist is that he's the rest of the painting. Like how he's experiencing everything and feeling and thinking and the relationships. I mean, that part of making up, but I feel like that's what he meant by that.

Jon (19:30)
Yeah, because I don't remember who it was in the book, but someone, when they were describing how he paints, it's like you don't paint the thing or you don't draw the thing, you paint how it feels. And that's how that whole thing was like, it comes through the expression of it ocean or whatever, but like, that's not what it is. It's really about the feelings that he's expressing from that summer with those kids.

Kristy (19:54)
Right. So this is quite a dark book in many ways, which we've talked a little bit about already. It highlights abuse, trauma, depression, violence and death. Why do feel there was such a focus on these areas and how did it influence the reading experience for you?

Jon (20:12)
This question is as deep as the book.

Kristy (20:14)
I mean, just really heavy at times.

Jon (20:17)
It's really like, I think the whole book is incredibly heavy. starts off with Louisa. Sure, for sure. I think those came through similarly in how those kids probably experienced it. Like they had to find humor somewhere. They had to find lightheartedness somewhere because death and abuse and despair was just like all around them at all times. Otherwise that summer or through their...

Kristy (20:24)
There's some funny moments in it.

Jon (20:46)
through their lives. How did it affect the reading experience? I don't know. I gotta imagine that because this book is so focused on expression, not as so like, because there's not like a specific plot line, there's not like a murder to solve or an origin story or something, right? Like, this is all about these characters and how they felt in each of their individual journeys. I feel like the author had to paint.

a darkness in order to appreciate the light that was the painting or that was like that came out of these kids as adults or as you reach the end of the book. You had to have both of the sides of the spectrum in order to appreciate the other.

Kristy (21:36)
Do you think that there's something to like the idea that artists are broken or dark and mysterious or... Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Jon (21:51)
I think great art comes from tragedy. think history has proven that over time, over time. We were actually joking about the latest Taylor Swift album because it's so different and it's like maybe because she's actually happy this time and we're just like, can you just go back to being heartbroken and-

Kristy (22:07)
No, totally disagree. I love this album. I don't care. I know there's meat out there for it. Breaking the action here. I freaking love this album and I can listen to it back and front. I never want to skip anything. It's the perfect amount of time. It's 42 minutes. Yes, we have many times in the house. It's like on repeat. I'm constantly dancing to it. But this album is about Taylor being loved.

And even the ones before that through her breakups, like she did write albums where she was in love, but this album is about her being loved. And there is a difference in that. And there's nuance and people like love being like, there's a difference and I am here for it.

Jon (22:55)
Yeah, and you can hear it in the album and I'm not passing judgment one way or the other, but it's definitely different. Like there is an expression through angst and anger and despair. Like that's where like so many other varying emotions live and great art just comes out of that in whatever medium it might be painting, might be music, might be poetry.

Kristy (23:19)
Well,

you know, I think the greatest poet of the 20th century is Bruce Springsteen. And he has been very open about his struggles with depression and having dark times and he grew up with, know, yeah, exactly. So there's definitely something to be said about that. Back to the question at hand. I completely agree with you that you really see these...

Children go through these traumatic experience and dark times and like all those things and then it makes the appreciation and what ends up happening with Kimkim and the painting all that more Amazing or great or yeah special. I'm not sure what the word is. I I don't think for me personally Again, I know this is a very heavy book. I don't think it changed my experience with it because I do read a lot of heavy stuff, but I do completely agree there should be trigger warnings on this book for those who

Especially the domestic violence piece of it, although it's not happening to our main characters, we're hearing about it from a third party, it's still, I think for some people... It's very prevalent. Exactly. So I would say that the book needs that and you should go into it with caution if that is a concern of yours to be triggered by that. But for me, it didn't take away from the experience. I just felt horrible for these kids through a lot of the aspects and what they were dealing with.

also happy that they could find these moments together and through these things. And you had someone like Joar who was really championing Kimkim making this painting and like, this is his chance to get out. Like, he's so special. He needs to leave this life behind. I mean, who really at 14 years old has friends like that? are thinking like that?

Jon (25:04)
Right. Completely selfless. Like, you are always, I have no life left.

Kristy (25:10)
He literally was like, I'm going to die. I'm not going to make it out of here.

Jon (25:14)
Yeah. And just projecting all of that into his friend. Yep.

Kristy (25:20)
So the book says that while Ted was in love with Kimkim, Kimkim was in love with someone else. It never really identifies who that someone else. I think it hints, but who do you think it was that Kimkim was in love with?

Jon (25:34)
⁓ man. It implies strongly that it was probably Joar. But I don't think it was that simple for Kimkim. think Kimkim was in love with the feeling that he had over that summer. I think he was in love with that journey and what that group of friends captured for him and how it not just changed the course of his life to become an artist or whatever, but like, I think...

He was in love with holding on to that feeling of that youth and being free like that, the way he was with his kids. I think that's what he was in love with.

Kristy (26:15)
You just blew my mind right now. Yeah.

think that is so spot on. He's like chase in a way, because he talks about, or Ted talks about how the lifestyle he led after the painting and he becomes world famous and he has all these experiences and he's traveling and then he finally like decides to come back and him and Ted live together. And I think, yeah, you're right. Like he couldn't love someone because he's out there like chasing that feeling and trying to get...

back to that feeling and maybe wholeness of what he felt that summer with his friends. I also read that some people think it's Christian. And I don't know that I believe that, but I just wanted to throw that out there. But I actually think you're totally right.

Jon (27:10)
I could see that theory being plausible. I Christian was really the first time I think Kimkim saw himself, a reflection of himself in someone else and believed that he could do the things that he was capable of and believe that he was capable of the things that he was doing. While Joar pushed him to get out and to be great, I feel like Christian gave him the tangible-ness. Like it gave him something.

it unlocks something within him that he could relate to as opposed to someone just saying like, you're great, go do this thing. I think he saw himself in Christian. I think, yeah, I could see a love for him in that way.

Kristy (27:56)
So it's actually close to my next question. let's let me read that and then we'll unpack because I want to unpack a little bit more about what you said. So Christian's the janitor and at the school where actually he's the like substitute janitor at the school that the kids go to. So Christian really sees a potential in Kimkim and like his artistry. So say more what you mean about that he made it tangible for him.

Jon (28:23)
I it was the first time that Kimkim saw art from someone else that he could relate to. Someone else who was also broken. Someone else who also wasn't perfect. Oh, I see. Someone else who was a kid.

Kristy (28:35)
So it made it like more attainable. He's like, ⁓ I actually can do this.

Jon (28:39)
And yeah, none of his other friends were artists in that way. And that just creates a very unique and special bond, I think, with Christian than with any of his other friends that he felt extra comfortable being himself around Christian that he wasn't really able to do even around his other friends. Because there were a couple of instances or references where they were like,

Kristy (28:57)
Yeah, I think that's fair.

Jon (29:03)
They've never seen him smile. They've never seen him like laugh this way after being around Christian or something like that. And I think that's because Christian allowed him to be another level of free and expressive that he just wasn't able. He was very turtle-shelled around his other.

Kristy (29:21)
And also remember, it's probably the first adult who he sees as an artist that is a good role model for him because he doesn't have his parents. His mom is like, don't make too much of a fuss. She's checked out. Yeah. Well, and she's just like, go along with what people say, don't have an opinion kind of thing. And then the art teacher...

is like cruel, like cruel to Kimkim. And so this is the first time he has like an adult who is in any way an artist, but also in a lot of ways, just like someone he can like kind of rely on and look up to.

Jon (30:05)
Yeah, maybe think of Hamilton real quick, where Aaron Burr is like, "Talk less, smile more." That's that was his mom, like, fall through the background. Don't shake things up.

Kristy (30:20)
So what do you think the pier in the painting might symbolize?

Mmm

Anything that I would see would disappoint me based on the way this book describes the artist and paper.

Jon (30:39)
It is better in the mind's eye than the physical eye. I'm going to go on up here and say, I think the peer represents time. In my mind's eye, I think of the peer as a perspective. If you can see the peer, but you can't really see the friend group until the very, very tip. I think the peer would represent that summer or that amount of time where that time shrunk and shrunk and shrunk until it was over because you have those

friends at the end and then everything else around is how those friends in that entire summer made him feel. And so the peer to me, was a moment, that moment in time. Did I just blow your mind again twice in one episode? ⁓

Kristy (31:21)
I do like that answer. I do like that answer, but no. I kind of think of it as like a utopia almost because their lives are so chaotic and they spend a lot of time on that pier that summer. And that's like the place where it's like, they don't have to worry about their home lives. They don't have to worry about like these other pressures or things like.

This is their place where they can be kids and they can goof around and they can be with the people in their life that matter most, which is their friend group. And so I kind of saw it that way. I like that. Also maybe like a stability for them, like the place they actually found stability and it is a pier. and hopefully it's stable. Safe. Oh, it's a safe harbor. Oh, I just blew my own light.

Okay, I said not to unpack this earlier, so we're going to do it right now. What are your thoughts on the ending and what happens next for all of our main characters?

Jon (32:24)
It was a little anticlimactic, I also don't know what sort of climax the story was meant to have given how the rest of the book.

Kristy (32:34)
At the Climaxi-In.

Jon (32:36)
That's not the same thing.

Kristy (32:38)
It is not!

Jon (32:41)
Could you define the two for me?

Kristy (32:44)
You have your opening, have your climax of the story where the main thing happens and you have like all this shit that happens after the climax and then you're ending.

Jon (32:53)
Okay, so the ending is where Louisa decides to put the painting in a museum and not sell it?

Kristy (33:01)
Yeah, that and then she goes off and yeah, she goes her art school and

Jon (33:06)
Yeah, I think my stance probably stays the same. It felt a little anti climactic. However, once it was clear that that was the decision that she was making when she stated why she was making that decision. She's like, if I looked at this art only as money, anything I ever created, that would be my only prison that I saw things through. And she's like, I wouldn't be able to create again in the same way. I'm like,

That makes a ton of fucking sense to me.

Kristy (33:37)
No,

that's ridiculous. I'm sorry, that's fucking ridiculous.

Jon (33:42)
I don't think so, not for artists like that, not for artists that like express themselves in such a like, from an emotional standpoint and feeling. I don't think they can create in that way when they're only like, I have to create to meet this deadline or I have to create to do this thing. No, I think that's a completely different level of artistry.

Kristy (34:04)
Okay, hear me out. I'm not saying she needs to like just sell this painting for $20 million or whatever, you know, it was. Okay. I'm not saying she needs to sell it and like keep this money and then never do whatever she wants like with her life. However, it was important to her this being a museum. I totally understand that. And I imagine since a lot of paintings go on loan that you could say I...

Jon (34:06)
Go ahead.

Kristy (34:32)
they're like a stipulation in the selling that you have to display this in a museum, like X amount percentage of time that you like own this painting. I also imagine there are museums who pay for art too. Second, hold on, I'm not done. No, hold on, because this is important part. It's not just about the money. Like even if she doesn't want to make herself rich, she could do so much for other artists with that money that she doesn't have right now.

The fact that at the end of the book, she's like, I found one of us. She could have like, I don't know, scholarships or anything for these people that they identified that they want to send to art school. Like now you have the resources to actually do that. There doesn't always have to be starving artists. Like we could be smart. There's money out there.

Jon (35:20)
I don't think this is about starving artistry for her though. I think her premise, just, okay, not just about the quote that she said about how if I only saw this as money or only saw this as income, but I think it was also her appreciation of the artist and that artist, like it doesn't belong to anyone. It belongs to everyone. Even if you sell it to an individual and you do all those things you just said, I think that still breaks that premise for her that.

it doesn't belong to one person, it belongs to everybody. So yeah, maybe she got money from the museum to hang it up there or whatever, like who knows, they didn't really go into that specific. She obviously winds up doing fine, but.

Kristy (35:59)
I still think it didn't have to be money for her, but it could have been to support other artists. The other thing I'll say is I actually wish the book would have ended with her calling Ted. And the only thing after they get past the like pleasantries is I found one of us. And ending. like not all the other, like there's probably a page or two more. Like I just wish that had been the ending.

Jon (36:26)
I agree with that, that would've been pretty dope.

Kristy (36:29)
Alright, do you have any final thoughts on this book? Would you recommend it to our listeners?

Jon (36:36)
That's a tough one. ⁓

Kristy (36:38)
I mean, I think we had a lot of good things to say about the book and this discussion or during this discussion.

Jon (36:44)
It's

just such a different kind of read. Like, I think you have to go into a book like this wanting to be immersed into characters and not necessarily feel like there's a beginning and an end or a clear, like, objective of the book, I think. So, would you recommend it, given your 3.5, 4 stars?

Kristy (37:09)
I think so. I think that... I think it requires a lot emotionally of readers. You're dealing with some heavy topics. It's like you said, it's a slow burn. It's not... I mean, if this book has like the traditional like whatever the beginning before the climax is called, it is... Yeah. It does not have a traditional arc. Like I feel like it's very like even like linear across it. There's no like high points or anything like that. It's just about these things happening.

Honestly, the biggest high point is probably finding out that Joar's dad is the one who has the accident, Joar still alive and then what happens after that. But even that is not like, yeah, it's not like that at all. It's more ⁓ like, but I think, mean, if you like someone Fredrik Backman's other books, I think you're going to enjoy this. I think that's very indicative of his writing and like the stories he tells.

really about the people and the characters and the people around them and the friendships and things that they're building. the unlikely friends is a very big theme in A Man Called Ova. I think that if you like that, like, you'll really like this book. I think that there were moments where it felt a little draggy for me, but like, obviously other people are loving this book. I'm, or we or I are like, definitely like the outliers on some of the like,

maybe our criticisms of it, but I wouldn't tell someone not to read this book. I still found it enjoyable.

Jon (38:45)
Yeah, I agree. It makes me think too how many times we talk about like books are very much moments in time too and like what mood are you in to read this book? And I wonder for me if having come off the last two that we just did, if I would look at this book a little bit differently because of just like the cadence and different styles, if I would have been a different mood. But I agree, I would not not recommend this book to somebody.

Kristy (39:12)
So you would recommend it? And like we said earlier, or I said at the top of the show, there were so many moments where I was like, I wanna highlight this, I want to savor this, I wanna think about this later. I literally have quotes from the book that I texted to myself to say for later.

Jon (39:14)
Okay, double negative.

I think that speaks to just like, it's a very thought provoking book for sure. And that's just indicative of these kind of like very character driven books.

Kristy (39:39)
Yeah. Well, if there's nothing else, you don't have any other thoughts. I'm very proud of you for having some final thoughts. Thank you. We want to remind everyone that our next episode will be our season recap, then we'll take a break for the holidays and come back with season four in January. And as always, don't forget that a free way to support our show is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple Podcasts. Also, if you don't want to us, but you have a question or you have feedback on the show,

You can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. And don't forget that I said if you have a book recommendation for season four, please send it our way.

Jon (40:16)
Indeed. And tell other people in your circle about the show too. If you feel so inclined, I'm sure you have other book lovers in your life that might enjoy one of the books we covered. So be sure to share it with them.

Kristy (40:27)
please.

Well, I guess that's it.

Jon (40:31)
That is another one in the books.

Kristy (40:35)
Well, who knows? Maybe this will be the one your husband reads.

Jon (40:39)
Okay, bye-bye! See ya! Hey, where's Perry?

Kristy (40:41)
Hmm.

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