The Love Hypothesis

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described, hilarious, and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:10)
And that's me. Each episode we'll dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and surprising insights on the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:18)
We're here to explore everything from timeless classics to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:26)
So settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:46)
Hello listeners, welcome to season three, episode six of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy.

Jon (00:52)
And I am husband Jon, the one that Kristy makes read all of these books.

Kristy (00:58)
You're so pissed about that right now.

Jon (01:00)
It's annoying.

Kristy (01:03)
gotta read all these books! Gosh! Well, this week we'll be discussing The Love Hypothesis by Ali Hazelwood, a rom-com where a PhD student fake dates a grumpy professor and accidentally proves that love is a messiest experiment of all.

Jon (01:18)
Yeah, this is the one and only rom-com that you made me read this season, isn't it?

Kristy (01:22)
It is. And actually, I didn't even really make you read it. So if you'll recall back earlier this season in September, we were at RomanceCon and we ran a little contest and we offered listeners the opportunity to possibly be a guest on our show by suggesting a book that Jon should read. And from that, we picked one of those books randomly.

And the winner was The Love Hypothesis. We offered that person to come on the show. They were not interested, but we did want to give a shout out to Vanessa in Florida, who is a RomCom participant. Congratulations. Your book was selected. And luckily enough, it was a book I had read already. So I felt really confident going into this one. And I wasn't worried that like you wouldn't like it or I wouldn't like it.

I really love Ali Hazelwood. I've read several of her books before. I have to say Adam Carlson is one of my top book boyfriends.

Jon (02:28)
⁓ boy. know where my competition line is. Sure we will. that's right. This was the contest book. And I was worried about the contest and thankfully it didn't totally suck. So... Anyway, before we get into that whole discussion, we did also want to let you all know the other books Kristy is going to make me read this season, which actually there's only one left this season.

Kristy (02:32)
lol

Jon (02:58)
The next book up after this, I know, secretly in the back of my head. The next book is My Friends by Fredrik Backman. Fredrik Backman

Kristy (03:12)
I think it's Fredrik Backman

Jon (03:14)
Okay, we'll go with that. And then after that, we're going to have a recap episode similar to what we did in season one, where we'll kind of recap all the books that we covered this season and our favorite moments and yada, yada, yada. So it's always a fun episode.

Kristy (03:27)
I'm for my friends. actually just started it today. I'm about seven chapters in and I'm already really loving it in the storyline and just Fredrik's writing. I've read a few books by him already and his third person is, I mean, you'll see when you read it. It's just so engaging and you're feeling connected to these characters even though like you're not getting first person perspective and I think that's just a real art.

It's already gotten a ton of hype. It was like Jimmy Fallon's book club pick or something like book pick. I don't know. I didn't even know Jimmy Fallon did such a thing, but I saw it on there and ⁓ I know, right? Like literally every celebrity has a podcast and a book club. But before we get to our book summary, we want to remind listeners that you can keep up with all the books that I make Jon read and then talk about by following us on Instagram or TikTok. Yep.

Jon (04:05)
celebrities.

which you can find and link to on our website, booksimakemyhusbandread.com. And also if you're enjoying the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, even though Spotify is evil right now, or wherever you might be listening to our show.

Kristy (04:42)
Alright, are you ready for that spoiler free book summary?

Jon (04:46)
I guess, let's go.

Kristy (04:49)
As a third year PhD candidate, Olive Smith doesn't believe in lasting romantic relationships, but her best friend does and that's what's got her into this situation. Convincing on that Olive is dating and well on her way to a happily ever after was always going to take more than hand wavy Jedi mind tricks. Scientists require proof. So like any self-respecting biologist, Olive panics and kisses the first man she sees.

Jon (05:15)
Naturally, because that's what you do. And that man is none other than Kristy's favorite, Adam Carlson, a young hotshot professor and well-known asshole, which is why all of his positively floored when Stanford's reigning lab tyrant agrees to keep her charade a secret and be her fake boyfriend. And when a big science conference goes haywire, putting all his career on the Bunsen burner. Ooh, good one.

Adam surprises her again with his unyielding support and even more unyielding six pack abs, maybe eight? I don't know. Who was counting?

Kristy (05:55)
Suddenly their little experiment feels dangerously close to combustion and Olive discovers that the only thing more complicated than a hypothesis on love is putting your own heart under the microscope. And just for the record, I don't write these. These are the summaries from the book jacket. So the Bunsen burner thing, yes, nailed it, but not me.

Jon (06:19)
I don't read the book jackets because you just say here read this and I'm like, okay, that's Anyway, all right. That's a spoiler free summary. So here's my hypothesis on spoilers going forward if one continues listening past this point Exposure to major plot details is 99.9 % likely Major

Kristy (06:39)
Major plot details.

Alright, give it to me. What do you think about this book?

Jon (06:49)
Okay.

Kristy (06:51)
You loved it, didn't you?

Jon (06:53)
It was like it was good. It was fine. It wasn't like earth shattering. It was a

Kristy (06:59)
But it

was ooey gooey and fun and funny.

Jon (07:04)
This

is my review. You wait till your review to do all the gooey gooey gooey over over.

Kristy (07:10)
I didn't say I said it once.

Jon (07:12)
yeah, right. It was an entertaining rom-com. It was good. I didn't totally hate any of the characters. I thought some of it was a little predictable. Maybe it's because you're making me read so many rom-coms. I'm getting like used to the plot lines and tropes. I even called one of the tropes, even though I was a little early in one, which trope it was, but it was good. It was like a typical rom-com. It was fun. It was enjoying. I thought the ending played out nicely and, you know, happily ever after to the two of them. So.

Tell me about your ooey gooey chocolate chipness.

Kristy (07:44)
It's not a rom-com if it's not heavily ever after, but that's why if you remember back to that conversation we had on the love haters with the Katherine Center note that she wrote at the end of the book, like that's why we love, actually I think it was a different book of hers. We did, covered the love haters, but that she wrote was from a different, yeah, a different novel of hers. But she wrote about love stories and...

why love stories are so important and because it gives us this hope, you know what I mean? That things will get better, that things will work out, I don't know, there's like good people in this world and caring people in this world and people you can trust. So that to me is like why I say it's like a chocolate chip cookie. Like, yeah, I know what I'm getting when I eat a chocolate chip cookie. It's going to be sweet. It's going to be warm and enjoyable. I want to say moist, but that's going to freak people out.

You like it for a reason. So I like that about Roundhams. Like I know where it's heading. Yeah, some things aren't going to be... are going to be similar along the way and it's supposed to end in a happily ever after or at least a happily for now. And that's okay too. So yeah, I don't think there was anything earth-shattering about this book, but I thought it was fun. It was enjoyable. It made me feel good inside and I enjoyed the characters.

Jon (09:01)
Yeah.

I I did. I bet I did.

Kristy (09:17)
One scene in particular.

Jon (09:19)
Ha ha ha.

Kristy (09:21)
Did you go back and read the bonus chapter?

Jon (09:23)
No, I read the author's note and then I was making dinner and I started reading it and then I was like, no, this is longer than I was expecting it to be and I just shot it. So I didn't.

Sorry, not sorry.

Kristy (09:37)
You're not going to like the question I have about that then.

Jon (09:40)
Well, shit.

Kristy (09:42)
All right, so the author, Ali Hazelwood has a PhD in neuroscience and she peppers her novel with scientific references and terminology. Did you enjoy this window into the world of science academia? How did you feel about the academic setting?

Jon (09:56)
It was a nice change of pace. was something different. It felt kind of self-contained in like the world didn't have to be super vast or you have to really know a specific location across the country or the world or anything. it kind of like, you could picture a university setting. I think she did a really good job of like not overpowering the scientific aspect of it and just kind of like how she just sort of like peppered it in enough to give it substance and like a good foundation without

making me feel like I'm an idiot because I don't know anything about science and petri dishes and things like that. yeah.

Kristy (10:34)
I think it was enough, like you're saying, that even basic science that you probably took in high school, like the Bunsen burners or petri like what you're saying, like some of those things that you got. You didn't have to know science to enjoy some of the aspects that she was talking about.

Jon (10:48)
Yeah.

Right. So yeah, I mean, I agree with that. What do you have any other deeper thoughts into the academic setting? You were in academia. I was not. I didn't go to a traditional four-year school or anything like that. So you did school, albeit a little bit later in life, but then you did grad school as well. So you probably have more familiarity with the setting. So I love your take on it.

Kristy (11:16)
Yeah, I mean, I have familiarity as, you know, a student, grad student, specifically, like not in a PhD program, but in a master's program, which I know is different because PhD students are also like teaching courses and have a different like, like that is their job and their workload. So on top of their research or whatever, you know, program you're in. So I didn't have that.

I don't have that experience necessarily, but I do love academia. I think it also is the fact that I went to it a little bit later in life. And I have this different appreciation, I think, that maybe some traditional age students might not. But I just love learning. So I think that's also why I love this setting. And also why like books in general. So I really liked it. also...

Not in this book specifically, but other books by Ali and some other ones I've read that are even fiction set within an academic setting, the challenges that like specifically women, you know, go through and I'll just leave it at that.

I don't want to go down that hole in this, what it should be a conversation, but very real. A lot of women have to navigate.

Jon (12:41)
And I think she actually did she she being I mean she deals with that yeah in a approachable way.

Kristy (12:45)
It just deals with that. It's absolutely...

Yeah. All right. So what were your thoughts about our main characters, Olive and Adam?

Jon (12:57)
I feel like Olive is a very intelligent person. Obviously, she's in a PhD program. She's leading a study on pancreatic cancer. At Stanford. I think she's a very insecure person. I think she lacks lot of confidence. think she's kind of person who will go out of her way to make sure that everyone else is happy before she goes and asks.

herself, ask for help about herself or like she'll sacrifice her own happiness or well-being for to make sure that her friends are happy. And she does in the book, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, an endearing trait, but obviously I think it gets her in more trouble than, uh, troubles maybe not. It comes at a cost and I think she's second guesses and doubts a lot of things like Ahn is going to be so mad at her. She finds out she lied to her or

Kristy (13:31)
than she does in the book.

at a cost.

Jon (13:51)
Adam's never gonna believe me or anything like that. I think that causes a lot of extra stress and anxiety unnecessarily within herself and like within her little like dynamic of close friends and you know, she overcomes that in the end, which we'll talk about. But yeah, I thought she was sweet. I thought she was a great main character that you could like root for and she was a little annoying in some spots, but overall I didn't think she was like over the top and you, I did find myself like rooting for her.

Now, Adam.

Kristy (14:23)
Hold on, let's let's finish Olive.

Jon (14:25)
yeah, sorry. Okay. All right. Share me your brain cells on all.

Kristy (14:30)
Yeah, I completely agree with what you said about her and that she is a really easy character to root for, that you, you know, felt for her and her story, like with her mom and her journey and like all those things. And what I disliked about her, maybe this is a part you found annoying about her. Everyone's a little annoying to some point, but I have said this before on this podcast, one of the things I hate in...

I feel like this happens a lot in books. Obviously happens in real life. But when someone is having a full on conversation in their head for the other person, and Olive does that, like you're saying multiple times in this book, like, he won't believe me, he'll do this, he'll think this, he'll say this. Like, you don't fucking know what he's going to say, think or do. Like, you've known this guy for a month or whatever it's been, three months, I don't even know.

It's just, yeah, it's like six weeks. So you don't know anything that he's going to do. You have no freaking clue. So that was annoying to me because that was where like, I don't even want to call it miscommunication because there was just no communication. But I think that that's where Olive gets in like a little bit tricky and...

Jon (15:49)
Yeah, she makes a lot of assumptions about what other people are going to think. I shit, I do that a lot. Like, I'm in my own head a lot with those kinds of things. like, my God, they're going to think this, this, this, or this, like, what if this, this, this, and this? And you just kind of go through it and like, you don't really know. Like, it's fine to have thoughts like that and, you have like a plan in case it goes one way or another, but like,

It can definitely be detrimental to the point where it like paralyzes you to go any path whatsoever.

Kristy (16:22)
You can't spiral to the point where you don't communicate what you need to communicate to the person because you have made assumptions. You can be worried, scared, unsure, anxious. You can be all those things going into a conversation because I think this person is going to react this way. But making assumptions on how they're going to react is different than stopping yourself from saying something

because you are 100 % sure they're going to do this. Like, save the thing. All right, give me the skinny on Adam.

Jon (16:56)
Yep.

He ain't skinny. He's ripped, apparently.

Kristy (17:04)
And uncommonly tall, I'm sure.

Jon (17:06)
Nice.

Adam, Adam, Adam, Adam. Okay, so there is a number of things that I appreciated about Adam. I envy that sort of character trait where you can just be that honest and he's being it in a way that is coming across to people as rude and in unempathetic or not sympathetic to whatever they're going through or whatever it be.

blunt and this actually makes me think of one of my favorite lines from Taylor Swift's song where it's like, you're casually, yeah.

Kristy (17:42)
really cruel in the name of being honest.

which

I will say you have used to describe me.

Jon (17:51)
I have and hold my ground on that. ⁓ you have gotten better though. And I think for Adam, like that, that's great. And it's such like an important, powerful trait to have, to be able to communicate those kinds of hard truths with people. But there has to be a balance with like caring about that person too. It's like, it's basically the premise of the whole radical candor book by Kim Scott that came out years ago.

where it's like, you have to care about that person in order to like provide truth to them that, that they can receive it and actually hear the meaning behind it. Isn't personal that it's, you know, developmental, it's growth. They say that the, or he tries to communicate that to all of them in the book where it's like, it's never personal. He tries to really communicate that it's about the project or it's about the paper. It's about the study or the research and not the person, we're all fucking human and it's all like gonna stay in like, you put all these things into it. anyway,

I liked him as a character. I rooted for him. thought he, despite all of that like hard external shell, he was clearly a softy on the inside when he was able to let people in his friendship with.

Kristy (19:03)
He's a chocolate chip cookie, too. A little salt on it.

Jon (19:09)
yeah, adding a little salt is so good. As his friendship with Holden was sort of, you know, ⁓ uncovered as we learn about it, you could just tell like there's so much genuine, genuineness in him. But he puts on this, you know, this act in his shell and like he feels like that's how academia is. And he, you he talked about

how cutthroat it is and that sort of thing. So anyway, so those are my thoughts on Adam. What about you besides like the fact that you're gonna like melt on camera when you start talking about it?

Kristy (19:49)
I like Adam because of some of the reasons you're saying, like, he is really direct and I just appreciate that about people and I get it, like, some people aren't ready for that and I believe that, like, the truth can hurt but the truth teller should not, so there is a balance there.

When I have learned to give feedback in the past and the organizations that I've worked at and how you deliver feedback to direct reports or peers or whatever the case may be, and it's like what you're saying. He's focusing on the task. You focus on the task and not the person. I realize though that that is extremely hard for a lot of people to separate. And the one example of the student that we'll talk about a little later who...

takes it really personally. if you go back and you think about what Adam said later on, that he makes it about the task, the thing, the research, whatever it is, but you go back to what that person was feeling, it's not the same. And so while I know that there has to be like a blend of empathy and like all those things, like I like that he's direct, I like that he's awkward, I like that he is extremely smart, like,

Smart and tall, mean, I don't even know. That's all I need.

Jon (21:19)
Taking applications now, listeners.

Kristy (21:23)
You're smart and tall and awkward. Check, check. But the confidence for him is also like the secret sauce.

Jon (21:26)
Totally awkward, yeah.

Yeah.

Kristy (21:37)
Alright, there are several tropes in this book, fake dating, grumpy sunshine, and forced proximity. Which one worked best for you?

Jon (21:47)
Well, I'm just proud of myself that I was like a little more halfway through the book. And I was like, I asked you, I'm like, is this a forced proximity trope? And you looked at me like, are you, have you gotten to, I'm like, no. I'm like, ⁓ okay, then yes, but it's not like, so I was actually proud of myself that I thought there was a, yeah.

Kristy (22:09)
The force proximity doesn't really happen until they share the room.

Jon (22:13)
The room. Yeah. Yeah. Which I

Kristy (22:15)
I consider the being on campus together and all that like forced proximity. Like forced proximity is like I have to be in the same room or the same home as this person for like a set period of time and there's no escape.

Jon (22:29)
Sure. I

also didn't realize that, yeah, I mean, I obviously didn't realize that fake dating was a trope. So if I knew that was a trope, I was like, clear, that's clearly a trope. That's like exactly what the whole storyline is. So I thought like them being within the same campus and within the same like program, like that to me felt like Forest Park 70, but I get That's fair. The fake dating maybe got a little bit old towards the end. More so from Olive's point of view, when she was starting to believe that like,

he has someone else that he's secretly in love with. I'm like, girl, when is he ever giving, like you're just latching onto this one thing that Holden said and you're just like playing that out. like, no. So yeah, I thought they were good. They were nice. They were pleasant.

Kristy (23:13)
I enjoyed them very much.

Jon (23:17)
What did you like about the tropes? there one that stood out to you?

Kristy (23:21)
love a grumpy sunshine trope. just really do. I liked that Olive talked about tropes in the book and like the fake dating like Adam's clueless that this is a thing and when they go or he's like you can share a room with me and she's like no there will be one bed and he's like no here's my

Jon (23:23)
knew it.

Yeah,

like, look at my room booking.

Kristy (23:46)
confirmation.

my booking it's two beds. She's like, you don't understand. There will be one bed. He's like, has no idea what she's talking about. She's like, there's always one bed.

Jon (23:56)
That was pretty funny. Yeah, I like that.

Kristy (23:59)
Alright, the fake dating starts because Olive is trying to protect Ann's happiness. How far was you go to protect your friend's happiness were Olive's actions over the top?

Jon (24:09)
think her heart was in the right place. I think she loves on dearly as a best friend, clearly knew that she didn't have any feelings to Jeremy, but for some reason felt she couldn't just tell on that and that I would believe her. And so I could see the this playing out again, sort of, you know, her character trait of sacrificing, being willing to sacrifice happiness within herself in order to make sure that her friends were still

we're happy. How to your other question, like how far would I go? mean, I don't know. I don't know. I was just like randomly turned around. I guess the first stranger just to make a friend happy, but I could see like, I do think there's a, there is a trait within myself, similar to all of that. am willing to sacrifice something that I might want through my own happiness of some kind in order to make sure that someone else is happy first. I do see that in myself so I could relate to that. So what about you?

Kristy (25:08)
I mean, if she doesn't do it, we don't have the book, so there's that. But I don't, I think it was like a little over the top that you wouldn't just tell your friend, like, I really am not interested in him. You can date him and be able to have that honest conversation with him. I mean, if your friendship is as good as she portrayed, then eventually she should be able to convince on that, like, she's serious, that she's not secretly...

you know, wishing she was with Jeremy or whatever that she's moved, you know, really moved on. And honestly, she said, she's like, I didn't really like him all that much to begin with. Or like there wasn't anything really there. They went on like one or two dates. I hear you. I mean, I get the going out your way for your friend thing, but in this case, like that was a little loosey goosey for me. But I'm glad it happened.

Jon (25:52)
Yeah.

Right, because otherwise we wouldn't have the buck.

Kristy (26:05)
Exactly. All right, so we discussed this a little bit already, but Adam has a bad reputation on campus. While he believes he's being fair and helpful, others see him as being unduly cruel. What's your take on tough love teaching methods? What's the line between direct and hurtful?

Jon (26:23)
Big reputation, big reputation. ⁓ you and we got big reputation.

Kristy (26:30)
In this case, it's bad reputation.

Jon (26:33)
⁓ I think you probably know my stand on this personally. I don't respond well to that type of approach Unless unless I already have like established some mad respect for the person giving me this tough love where then I can like create that separation of Of the two but I take too much personally

in a lot of ways. And so that kind of approach I have a hard time with. Like we talked about though, there are ways to deliver tough news that can still come from a place of empathy and in place of caring. And I think Adam learns that over the course of time. think Olive helped like soften some of his edges. Don't, he doesn't, she didn't dismiss it. She doesn't like make him change what's coming out of his mouth. I think it's like how it's coming out of, how, how.

how it's coming out of his mouth. I thought I did, that's what I heard in my head. And so I'm like, I just had to repeat myself to make sure I didn't actually say that. And I think you had... ⁓ man. You kind of like alluded out a little bit earlier too when you're talking about Adam about how it's like the, what did you say? The message can be...

Kristy (27:33)
Say, I'll go.

The truth can hurt but the truth teller should not.

Jon (28:00)
Yeah, they're that. And I think that kind of sums that up. I think Adam starts in that place, you know, as we learn a little bit of all his background and his ⁓ journey through academia, I see why he turned out that way. But yeah, Olive kind of softens ⁓ his edges and he keeps his sort of like core presence about himself and why he thinks that feedback he is giving him so important, but he just like smooths it out a little bit.

Kristy (28:27)
Yeah. I mean, I can relate to Adam. Empathy is not something that comes naturally to every person and is something I have to think about a lot. But to your point, when you demonstrate that you really care about people and that is the, I'll say, baseline or depending on who it is, root of your relationship, and that's like the foundation of your relationship that I genuinely care about this person.

then you should be able to deliver whatever you need to say. And that's probably what's really missing for Adam in this case because he does. He actually really does care because what he is is like, I'm trying to create really great scientists and it's better for me to weed out the people who aren't going to contribute to the research and whatever science-y things are going on. I don't want to sound stupid and say something.

wrong. like that type of thing. He's trying to weed those people out, which I understand as you know, he's a fellow scientist. He wants there to be good research and work and some people just are not cut out for that. But it also would not be good for that person if they're unhappy with what they're doing, if they're like not understanding, not meeting the bar, like all those things. So it's like in service to the person as well. But what he is missing is the fact that he is not

demonstrated the why of what he's doing and why he is being direct as he is, which I think is something he has to learn. But like you said, he's also probably never had it demonstrated for him in his life. His parents were diplomats, he was raised by other caregivers. So he's recovering in a way from what he's experienced himself. It's just misunderstood.

Jon (30:17)
Yes.

as most academics with eight packs are.

Kristy (30:31)
All right, digging in even more here, think about chapter seven and Olive's argument with Greg. And I hinted about this little earlier. Do you think that Olive is in any way responsible for how Adam treats other students?

Jon (30:45)
No. No, I thought I thought that entire interaction was just wildly inappropriate of Greg, especially that what like all of them. Adam had been dating in air quotes, amusing air quotes for what, like a week or two at that point. Like she doesn't have the kind of influence on him yet. Pro, come on, be real. Also, like reverse role gender roles and

Kristy (31:04)
Right.

right?

Jon (31:14)
No, that's just not, that wouldn't even be a thing if a woman had like come up to a guy and be like, why don't you get your girlfriend to grade my papers more accurately or, you know, be nicer about her or whatever the phrase is. like, no, no, I was totally off the hook for any of that shit.

Kristy (31:36)
I'm so just like so proud of you for bringing in gender dynamics. But also, can you imagine a guy going back to his... I say this because in academia, women professors are consistently rated poorly for reasons that their male colleagues are not. Like how they dress, how they speak, all these things that are absolutely ridiculous and they a lot of like on average...

Statistically, women professors are rated lower in performance than men. And so can you just imagine though, if like you said, their genders are switched and Adam's going back to all of them going like, oh, you hurt some people's feelings.

Jon (32:23)
It's right.

Kristy (32:25)
is already happening because women are unduly criticized for that in academia already.

Jon (32:32)
Yes, yes. So you said not to go, you promised not to go down that rabbit hole.

Kristy (32:36)
I know. So the conference trip is a big moment for Adam and Olive's relationship. What parts during those scenes felt most believable and which felt the most rom-com?

Jon (32:49)
Okay, the conference. So much happens at the conference. I need you to narrow this down for me a little bit more. Are we talking about Tom? Are we talking about the scene? I need a little bit more like specificity.

Kristy (33:05)
There is only one sexy in this book, and it is

And if you haven't read this book in a while or you read it a few years ago when it came out, which is when I read it, there's now a bonus chapter. So the entire book in its original format is from Olive's, she's the narrator. The bonus chapter is that scene from Adam's point of view.

Jon (33:30)
that whole scene?

Kristy (33:31)
Yes, just the bedroom scene.

Jon (33:35)
Okay.

Kristy (33:36)
I know you're so anxious to read it now. If you didn't think that thing could get any better, you're wrong, it can.

Jon (33:41)
you

Okay, back to your question. All right, yeah, because a lot obviously happened at the conference. That's where everything really comes to fruition.

Kristy (33:57)
This is the climax of the story and other climaxes.

Jon (34:01)
Good one.

Kristy (34:05)
But I'm...

Jon (34:05)
⁓

Yeah. ⁓ Okay. So the conference.

Kristy (34:11)
I really hope your mom doesn't listen to this episode.

Jon (34:13)
Oh, she's totally gonna listen to this episode. She'll listen to all the episodes. I thought the whole scene with Tom was so disturbing, but also so incredibly believable in a really sad way. And I had a sense that Tom was trouble from a bad dude.

Kristy (34:35)
dude. You

knew he was trouble when he walked in?

Jon (34:39)
And which I'm learning from you and all this reading that you're making me do that the antagonist is got to be someone who they've already introduced that they're not just going to be this random person who causes this thing. So that's me paying attention. But the love scene.

Kristy (34:42)
So Taylor

I love scene. I love the PG version.

Jon (35:09)
⁓ Family podcast actually is not a family podcast. For children, it's explicit.

Kristy (35:13)
Really not a family pod.

Yeah, this is not for children.

Jon (35:19)
I will admit it was pretty steamy. was pretty good. It was pretty hot. Yeah, it's coming for me. thought the way it unfolded was very realistic.

Kristy (35:27)
Ye-

Face

is so red right now.

Jon (35:37)
That's not my face. That's just the lighting.

Kristy (35:41)
That's just suburban.

Jon (35:43)
That's just the bourbon. That's probably true. I thought the way that unfolded, I thought the way that it happened, I thought like how mindful Adam was of Olive's like state at that time and was just really genuine and yeah, I mean, you're right.

Kristy (36:07)
Were there any scenes that felt like rom-commy to you in the conference piece?

Jon (36:13)
I don't think so. don't really know what Romcomie would what you like. What's your classification Romcomie would be? Can you describe what you mean by that?

Kristy (36:20)
Like

if they would have showed up and there would have been only one bed, like that's very. ⁓

Jon (36:26)
⁓ I see. Then no, actually I don't think it was because I think that's what I meant by like it felt like a realistic unfolding. Yeah, I think I was gonna say unraveling, but I that wasn't right. ⁓ Unfolding of a scene of tension of these two people that had been building over the course of these weeks or month or whatever it was that it kind of reached its precipice and you know.

Kristy (36:56)
Child, but you climax and precipice. I can't handle it.

gonna move on to the next question.

Jon (37:11)
No, I need to hear your thoughts on the whole conference now. You put it out there.

Kristy (37:16)
The whole conference?

Jon (37:18)
The whole, the conference, that's a euphemism.

Kristy (37:21)
I agree with you. The very first thing you said was how things unfolded with Tom and the confrontation they have after her session or whatever, like speaking session that she has. The panel, yeah, thank you. And you're right. It's uncomfortably believable, like that that's how it would go. I felt...

Jon (37:37)
Yeah, the panel.

Kristy (37:51)
maybe a little rom-comming the fact that she was able to have it recorded. You know what mean? I don't know. It's just like, of course she has it recorded. mean, because she even like made the comment and I knew that I'm like, yeah, she's going to have that whole thing recorded. Yeah. When I read it the first time, I actually thought that she was going to send it because remember her advisor asks for it. I thought she was going to send it and then the advisor was going to like call her and be like,

Jon (37:56)
Hmm.

Kristy (38:21)
What the is this? Like, who is this? Reporting this person. Yeah. I just also, I did appreciate that our friends was like, you were doing something with this. Like, this is not okay.

Jon (38:24)
That's funny, that's exactly what

Yeah.

And they put a name to it. Like they said, like, this is abuse or assault or harassment. Yeah.

Kristy (38:41)
Arrasment, yeah.

And you know damn well that's not the first time he did it either. So what you called the love scene? Yeah, I think that was totally hot. I thought it was amazing. Chef's kiss. So how did you ultimately feel about how Olive managed the situation and how that went down?

Jon (39:05)
Honestly, I don't know that I feel entirely equipped to able to answer that question as a white dude and never like I couldn't possibly fathom being put in a situation like that the way Olive was. Based on her character though, I thought retreating into herself felt very on brand for her. The whole book, she kind of had a hard time asking for help that she's just kind of that person that was like very insular in her own head. And so I could see her kind of turtle shelling into that.

That made a lot of sense for me. think knowing that and knowing what we kind of know about her character through the whole book, the fact that she could work up and muster the courage with the help of her friends to walk into that restaurant and just start playing the recording is pretty fucking ballsy. ⁓

Kristy (39:56)
Yeah. Well, she doesn't do that exactly. Like she asks to speak to Adam and then when Tom comes up and is like, what are you doing? You have to go back to the table, blah, blah, blah. Then she does it.

Jon (40:03)
⁓ come

Yeah, because he was like berating her right in front of Adam there too. like, she's not, he was just like, you can't just walk away from all of these people at the table. They're too important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just like be a little.

So then she started playing it and I was like, mic drop moment. Yeah, that was, like, if you just kind of pause and put yourself in her shoes in that moment, I couldn't even imagine like being able to hold the phone still. Like I would be so shaky and nervous and raw at what was being exposed in that moment. Major pit sweat, like.

Kristy (40:31)
Mic drop.

And sweaty.

Yes.

Jon (40:56)
Pits sweat, stress sweat is the worst.

Kristy (40:59)
I'm out.

Jon (41:01)
It is. So, yeah, the only thing I want say is like, I hated how she thought Adam wouldn't believe her because he never gave her any inclination in anything that happened over the course of the month that they were fake dating that he would do anything but that. And so that voice inside of her head was just really frustrating.

Kristy (41:24)
Because you're right, he at every corner, like, listen to her, let her express her feelings, showed that he cared about what she thought, even when he disagreed with her, like, with the feedback with the students. I mean, she flat out says, you know, go fuck yourself. then he didn't bat an eye about it. He was like, okay, she's expressing, she said what she's had to say.

Jon (41:48)
Yep.

I envy that. I wish I had more of that in me.

Kristy (41:55)
of you wish you had more Adam Carlson in you.

Jon (42:00)
I'm going to say yes, but I know that phrase is probably loaded with more than just what I heard.

Kristy (42:06)
I'm not going to go there, but in your soul.

Jon (42:10)
in my ability to.

Kristy (42:15)
I you could channel that.

Jon (42:17)
Yeah, channel that and just be able to like create that separation and like, it's just a great trait. Did you, I mean, what did you, did you have any other thoughts on like how she managed that situation? Did you wish you would have done anything differently or approach it in any different way afterwards?

Kristy (42:36)
Probably when I was Olive's age, I probably would have had a similar reaction to like how she handled, you know, the assault, essentially the verbal assault. Tom gives her. If this happened now, a hell no.

Jon (42:56)
You pull your switchblade and be like, take this, bitch.

Kristy (43:01)
No, but I would have not have stood there and taken like what he was saying. Absolutely not. It wasn't frustrating that she was standing there and taking it because I get that.

Jon (43:19)
I think the shock of it would have given you pause and you would have been like, is this really happening? is this, am I hearing what's actually, are you understanding the words that are coming out of my mouth? Kind of thing. Like that would have taken a moment for you. But you're right. I think once it registered what was actually happening, no, you would have like, you would have been up on his grill and taken action.

Kristy (43:46)
Yeah. All right. Your favorite question. Do you have any final thoughts? Would you recommend this one to our listeners?

Jon (43:55)
What the hell is my favorite question? Do I have any final thoughts? As far as rom-coms go, this was like a solid B. I think it was good. think it was entertaining. Yeah, that's my rating. I reserve the right.

Kristy (44:02)
I do.

B!

Your thought of what is good and my thought of what is good is so funny. A B, I'm like, ugh. I don't accept B.

Jon (44:25)
That's what, all right, we're not going, we're not going back there, okay? B is good for me. I was very happy with a B. Anyway, I'll give this book a solid B. And as for a rom-com.

Kristy (44:40)
Give

it a B plus for me, please.

Jon (44:44)
Fine, add the plus. my God.

The characters were good. There wasn't anybody super like that. I was just over the top disliked. Even our friend group like Malcolm and Anne were great.

Kristy (44:59)
So does it be me you gave it like a four in Goodreads? Okay. All right. I accept this.

Jon (45:06)
Well, thank God, I'll sleep better now.

But anyways, the ancillary characters, the supporting cast were also really were quite delightful. there were no like big showstoppers. didn't, the dialogue was fine. I didn't think it was as good as like some of the other romcoms that you've had me read, but it was enjoyable. So.

Your turn. What are your final thoughts?

Kristy (45:36)
I really like this one. I enjoyed the cast, like you said. I enjoyed the dynamic between our two main characters. There's a super spicy, ooey gooey yummy scene that I really enjoyed. And I enjoyed the setting.

Jon (45:52)
Yeah, academia was a nice twist.

Kristy (45:55)
Yeah. Well, we want to remind everyone that the next two episodes are going to be My Friends by Fredrik Backman. And then we'll have a recap episode as our final episode in season three. I almost said season six, but this is episode six. Yeah, season three. And then we'll take a short break and then we'll come back in January. And don't forget that a free way to support our show...

Jon (46:14)
yeah, there you go.

Kristy (46:23)
is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple Podcasts. If you don't want to rate us, but you have a question or feedback on the show, you can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you and we'll always give you a shout out on the show.

Jon (46:37)
Yeah. And hey, we got a bunch of swag too. We got like bookmarks and stickers and all kinds of other stuff. So if you email us and be like, Hey, listen to this episode. was awesome. We'll send you some.

Kristy (46:48)
Even if you emos and say I love this episode and it sucks

Jon (46:52)
then we'll send you one swag. If you say it was awesome, we'll send you two. But anyway, about the show, tell other book lovers, if you're a fan of books, you probably have other people in your life who are fans of books too. Maybe book clubs or whatever it might be. Tell them about the show. See if they like it. Maybe there's something we've covered that they've read.

Kristy (47:09)
Well, I guess that's it.

Jon (47:12)
it's another one in the books, boo.

Kristy (47:15)
Well, who knows? Maybe this will be the one your husband reads.

Jon (47:19)
And if he

Kristy (47:22)
Yeah!

Okay, bye. Peace out, Billy.

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