Onyx Storm

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described hilarious and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:10)
And that's me. Each episode we'll dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and surprising insights on the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:18)
We're here to explore everything from timeless classics to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:26)
Settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:46)
Hello listeners and welcome back to season three of Books That Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy.

Jon (00:52)
And I'm husband Jon, the one Kristy makes read all of these freaking books.

Kristy (00:58)
Did you know that when you married me there would be required reading?

Jon (01:02)
No, I did not. Damn it, should have read the fine print.

Kristy (01:06)
So in our very first episode of season three, we'll be discussing a book that you may have heard of, Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarros. In this third book in the Empyrean series, dragon rider Violet Sorrengail embarks on a dangerous quest across her world to find the lost seventh breed of dragons and to cure for her lover while navigating war, political alliances, and personal loss.

Jon (01:26)
Yeah, this one didn't quite hit as strong as the first two, so I'm sure this discussion will be fairly entertaining.

Kristy (01:34)
I agree. I picked this book for Jon though because one, we have read Fourth Wing and Iron Flame. We both very much enjoyed them. We enjoyed the world building, character development. There's dragons. Who doesn't love a book with dragons? I think as we get to the end of this book, we will see our characters triumph over a corrupt government. And who doesn't love that?

Jon (01:58)
do some of that in our real world. But hey, if you're if you happen to be new to our podcast, first of all, welcome. Thanks for stopping by. We hope you stick around a little bit of our format. So what we'll do is we'll provide a spoiler free summary of the book in case you haven't read it and you're not quite sure what it is. And then later on, we'll provide an audio cue, letting you know that we're going to start dropping spoilers so you can bounce if you don't. Well, if you don't want to hear the spoilers.

However, before we get there, we need to cover a few things before that. First, our next two books for season three. They're going to be Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid and Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea by Jessica Guerrier. Guerrier damn it! Sorry, Jessica.

Kristy (02:46)
in

Does it remind you of another word? Does it remind you of your favorite cheese?

Jon (02:53)
My

favorite cheese that I'll never be able to pronounce correctly. Gury, gury, gury, gury, gree? No. Gury, gury-ay. Gryary? Gryary? Damn it.

Kristy (02:56)
What is it?

Gruyère.

So we're excited about Jessica's book, but I am also very excited because I believe this is your first Taylor Jenkins read book, right? I remember we watched Daisy Jones and the Six, but you didn't read that. We just watched it, right? Correct. Yep. Okay. Well, I do think that you're going to love this one. And Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a book that I read earlier this year, and I'm excited to dive back into that ahead of the episode. And we are going to have the author, Jessica, on with

Jon (03:17)
It is.

Kristy (03:38)
So that's very exciting as well.

Jon (03:40)
exciting. I really enjoyed meeting Jessica earlier this year and I'm excited to actually pick up her book. feel actually feel ready for it this time around. I wasn't quite ready for it when we first met. So then next up you want to share some details about RomanceCon.

Kristy (03:53)
Yes. So if you didn't hear, we will be a vendor at RomanceCon. It's this Friday and Saturday in Milwaukee. So if you're going or if you're close to Milwaukee and you want to get your tickets still, be sure to stop by our booth, grab some swag. We're going to have stickers, bookmarks, and some painstakingly made friendship bracelets that I've spent a lot of time working on.

Jon (04:16)
Yes.

Kristy (04:17)
And if you're there, you will have a chance to enter a contest and possibly pick a book that Jon has to read.

Jon (04:24)
I know this has fallen on deaf ears, but I did not agree to this.

Kristy (04:29)
think you agreed when you said I do.

Jon (04:31)
It's a lot of things I seem to have agreed to when I said that. Curse the fine print. But yes, we'll be at RomanceCon, so be sure to stop by. We'd love to meet you. We'd love to meet some of our listeners and get kind of a firsthand account of what they've thought of the show.

Kristy (04:46)
Yes. And during the break, we also joined TikTok. So be sure to follow us there at "@BIMMHR", Books I Make My Husband Read, but it's "@BIMMHR". So you can keep up with all of our shenanigans. I will be the first to say that we have actually no idea what we're doing on TikToks, but we are trying to have a lot of fun and gain some listeners there to spread the word about this amazing podcast. So be sure to follow us and tell your friends.

Jon (05:17)
Yes. Tell your friends there are a couple of Xennials on tech talk that in and of itself should be entertaining. and of course we're still on Instagram. So head over there and follow us and check out all the content there and on our website, which now includes a signup form for our bi-monthly newsletter, which I think we're both excited about. Kristy will have book reviews ⁓ outside of podcasts. We'll share upcoming podcast episodes and things like that.

Fear not, we shall not spam you. We hate it as much as you do.

Kristy (05:50)
And our final thing that we wanted to remind listeners is if you're enjoying the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you happen to be listening. It helps us reach other listeners so that we can continue to produce more episodes and make Jon read more books.

Jon (06:06)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, how about that spoiler free book summary?

Kristy (06:12)
After nearly 18 months at Basgiath War College, Violet Sorengail knows there's no more time for lessons, no more time for uncertainty. Because the battle has truly begun, and with enemies closing in from outside their walls and within their ranks, it's impossible to know who to trust.

Jon (06:30)
Now, Violet must journey beyond the failing Aretian wards to seek allies from unfamiliar lands to stand with Navarre. The trip will test every bit of her wit, her luck, and her strength, but she will do anything to save what she loves. Her dragons, her family, her home, and of course, him.

Kristy (06:49)
Even if it means keeping a secret so big it could destroy everything. They need an army. They need power. They need magic. And they need the one thing only Violet can find. The truth. But a storm is coming and not everyone can survive its wrath.

Jon (07:05)
Indeed not. All right then listeners, from here on spoiler sparks are gonna fly. Some from magic, some from dragons and some naturally from the bedroom.

Well, new season. You want to go first or should I go first with our thoughts on this book? Hit it.

Kristy (07:30)
I'll go first.

I really like this one. I didn't like it as much as Fourth Wing or Iron Flame though. A couple problems I had with the book and why I felt that way. One is the pacing. Picking, I mean, one thing I appreciate about Rebecca Yarros, this series I should say, is it picks up immediately. Like you pick up right where you were in Fourth Wing and Iron Flame. Iron Flame you pick up right where you...

like the exact same scene in Onyx Storm. And I really liked that about a book. Like, I feel like when you pick up a series and there is a time gap that bothers me, unless there's a compelling reason for the time gap. But I feel like we are dropped into that same scene though. We're kind of moseying along, we're going to the aisles. And then the last hundred pages or so of the book, just a shit storm of things happen and Onyx Storm happens and...

So for me, like the pacing was off there. The other thing is we get so many, and not necessarily new characters, but we hear more about other characters that were present in other books, but not as often. And so suddenly they're like a main part of the storyline and I'm not quite sure who they are at a, like I know Violet, I know Xaden, I know Kat, I know Imogen, like you know those right away.

but these other characters have to like think for a second and I have to think about what their dragon is. And now we get new names and now we're on different aisles and different parts of like this, not continent, but this world. And we're learning new God's names and what type of people they worship or gods they worship and like what they stand for. So there's just so many things we're learning in this book. And I don't wanna say it was overwhelming, but I wasn't.

quick to know it. So I felt like I had to like go back, okay, like, what was this? What was this? And I don't know, I just didn't create quite the reading experience. I would probably, I gave it a four. I probably, I kind of went back and forth whether I wanted to give it a four or a five, but I don't know. It just didn't quite land all the way for me. And the other thing I got a little hung up on is I of course had, we both did, a ton of questions coming out of book two, which is understandable. have a ton of questions coming out of this book, but.

I felt like I was getting some of those answers specific to the storyline of her father. And then that just kind of dropped for me in somewhere in the middle, like, I don't know, two thirds, quarters of the book, like all this stuff she was researching on her father. And then we move into this battle scene at the end. And so, which was a huge chunk of, I mean, like, we're not talking like it's just one, it's a long part of the book. So, and all this stuff that happens. So that's kind of why I felt like it, I did again, still really loved it.

Jon (10:15)
Yeah, I think that mirrors a lot of how I felt about it too. think, I don't think I would come up with word pacing, but I think that hits the nail on the head that it felt like a bit slow through two thirds in the middle of the book. And then all of a sudden it was all these things, all these really impactful and important things happening in the last couple of chapters. I thought it was cool. The different aisles that you get to learn about.

though I was left like wanting to learn more. It's like they were just there for a hot second and then poof, they were gone. So I also thought at the end, the narration changed. It wasn't just from Violet's point of view. went to like an Imogen chapter. went to a Rhiannon chapter and a Xaden chapter. And I felt that was a bit jarring. Well, I liked, I almost wish I would have gotten more of that through the whole book.

But I mean, it was still an enjoyable read. I wanted to know what happened next. I never really felt totally bored with it or anything. Some things I wish I'd been like, all right, come on, let's move this along. But it's still good.

Kristy (11:24)
didn't necessarily feel that way at all. I definitely was enjoying the story. I read it twice now. So I feel like I had a better understanding of and grasp the second time through, which of course, obviously. When you know where the story is going, you pick up things like, ⁓ that's why X, Y, Z. So that's just natural. I do think that I completely agree with you on the chapters at the end. I think there was a Xaden chapter in...

The end of Iron

Jon (11:55)
I think so, yeah. was the first time that I was a different narrator.

Kristy (12:00)
I do wonder how the story would be and I'm not saying I think it's better served, but it might be, I think, maybe written from multiple points of view just because there are so many things happen that we just hearing from Violet throughout the story, which who knows, might happen more in book four. I think they were a little jarring because we hadn't heard from those characters before. And so we don't know their voice. don't know, I don't know, are they reliable narrators?

Jon (12:27)
Well, and their dragon's voice would come in or like their dragon too, or it was coming into their, those narrations too. And that just felt weird because now, like you were saying earlier, not only do you have to know their names, but now like you're introducing a new dragon personality with this, with this rider. And yeah, it was just,

Kristy (12:44)
a lot of things happens in those chapters. Yeah. So yeah, I completely get that. I think that's for me kind of why I don't totally agree with you on the slowness of the first part of the book. I don't think it was slow. I think it was a lot of stuff happens in a very methodical, good pacing. And then the same amount happens. I mean, it's a 500 plus page book. The same amount happens in the last hundred pages is what I mean. Yeah.

Again, I don't think it was slow. just think the pacing was good because a lot of stuff happens in those 400.

Jon (13:17)
was just like the juxtaposition of the patient from the end to the rest of book.

Kristy (13:20)
Exactly. makes

sense. Going into our first questions, in the first part of the book, a fair amount of time is spent on this quest visiting other Isles. So what did you think of the ones that the squads visited and did it add to the world building for you?

Jon (13:38)
It definitely added to the world building. was really interesting to see places that weren't Aretia or Navarre. So just learning about those cultures and learning about the different people. I almost wish we would have gotten more of them. I kind of hinted at it. Just sort of like they popped in and then popped out and they were really brutal and really dramatic and really dynamic. And then all of sudden they were gone. ⁓ I was left wanting a little bit more there, but I liked the expansion. I liked that the twist. I liked there was no magic.

on the Isles and so that was something new. Supposedly. ⁓ So that was something new and kind of an interesting dynamic change with all the characters that were on the quest. What do call it? ⁓ the quest squad. quest squad. We're going on a quest. So yeah.

Kristy (14:28)
talk about the violence because there's violence in some type of form on every single one of the Isles. Some are more obvious than others, but we have the first one they say, Deverelli and Holden's guard gets killed and beheaded and then the panthers eat the head and then he says to kill them all at one point. And then we have the combat.

battle in Umbriel and we have Traeger being shot and killed in Zanall, which was tragic, but I think what is set up at first is that like these are nonviolent people. This is the first place they go to where like they're excited to see them and there's people literally like in the, what I imagine is like, no, I wasn't even thinking about that. I was thinking in my head, I was picturing like they have a,

Jon (15:03)
was tragic.

Like the Coliseum Arena kind of thing.

Kristy (15:26)
waterfront or some kind of like riverfront and there's like bleachers set up and people are like literally hanging out on these bleachers like watching the skies for these dragons and then these dragons show up and people are like you know we're here we're so excited to see you and then what turns out to be these like innocuous gifts that they get and then one ends up killing them because it's you know god of luck so still violent though and then the last one is

the Hedotus and where we meet Xaden's mother, their culture is rooted in knowledge and that is the God they pray to, but yet the father poisons the chocolate cake and is ready to kill them all too. So like there's violence in various shapes and forms on all these islands, even though a lot of the, I think several of them like we don't have weapons. They don't have dragons.

There's no magic, but yet there's violence in all these forms. And so I think that that doesn't mean anything now, but I think it's going to mean something later. So I think that what we learned there, was like you said, it's a lot. Like we get all this and you're like, why are we here? What are we learning? I don't think we know yet. I think we're gonna find out later on.

Jon (16:33)
it up.

Yeah, it's kind of like all the seeds that she planted in she being Rebecca Yarros, ⁓ planted in like Iron Flame about her Violet's father. And now we get more of that story in this, but you're right. It's probably the same thing. Like we're getting pieces of these aisles and hopefully we get more of them, get more in depth.

Kristy (17:08)
Yes. All right. So let's talk about the Isle specifically not having magic. So while they're there, the Riders and their dragons can't communicate through the bond while on this quest. However, Violet and Tairn still have the bond. Why do you think this was? Do you think it'll play any significance in books four and five?

Jon (17:26)
because she's the most powerful being in the world. I assume it has something to do with her untapped power and potential yet. I don't know. That's really like the only thought that came to my head was that it had to do with something like that. Because I think up to this point, we don't know what her second signet is yet. And so I thought maybe it would have something to do with that. But I absolutely think it has more importance, more significance than we know about yet. I'm sure it's yet another seed in this series that will get played out.

you know, in books four and five and beyond. So it was also interesting to me because she could talk to Tairn, but Tairn couldn't talk to Sgaeyl or, and she could talk to Andarna. So I was like, well, is it Andarna the one that's like channeling this magic? then why could Tairn still? Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know. What, what did you think about her ability to still communicate?

Kristy (18:20)
I think it's something to do with Andarna because like you said, Sgaeyl and Tairn, like Tairn can talk to Violet, but he can't communicate with Sgaeyl. And we know that Tairn and Andarna can communicate too. So the three of them can communicate. And because Tairn is also through this bond between Sgaeyl and himself can communicate, he can actually, so the...

He can communicate with Xaden too. there's like all these people he can communicate with. But the only, I feel like, thing that's in the middle is the Andarna angle.

Jon (18:55)
She's the connecting tissue.

Kristy (18:58)
She's

a connecting tissue because if it was something else, why can't he also communicate with Sgaeyl? Why can't he also communicate with Xaden? Why can't Xaden and Violet communicate?

Jon (19:08)
Yeah, I see where you're going. Maybe it's Violet, because she can still talk to... ⁓

Kristy (19:12)
She

can't talk to Xaden.

Jon (19:14)
Right, that's true. Because I was going to say she could still talk to Tairn even after Andarna.

Kristy (19:19)
Right, but not on the aisles. They're not on the aisles at that point. All right. And I think the other thing is, and you had actually brought this up in another conversation, is the Irids, and I think it's because Andarna's an irid, the Irids can communicate with everybody. Yeah. So I think that that's going to play a role because we see them be able to communicate and then everyone's like, wait, were they talking to us?

Jon (19:22)
⁓ okay. So that makes sense then. Yeah.

Like,

Kristy (19:49)
Right,

like normally I only communicate with my own dragon. So I think that is a big part of it.

Jon (19:56)
I wonder if all those Isles don't have magic anymore from the first war with the Venin. I wonder if all those Isles were drained and now it's just humans living there and dragons can't live there anymore. I know. I imagine that would have been in the history books, but of course there's a lot of things that were left out of the history books. ⁓

Kristy (20:14)
All

right, let's talk about Andarna. How did you feel about her teenage sass?

Jon (20:19)
I thought it was, I mean, she's been sassy from her introduction. I think it's a great character trait. I love that part of the book. It's fun and light, but also some quasi annoying, but also like totally applicable. And you can absolutely believe it to be a true character trait. I thought it was great. I like that sass. you.

Kristy (20:41)
I mean, there were multiple times when I laughed out loud based on something she would say, specifically her sass with Tairn and she would like mock him. It's the old age or and then she would also very teenage, like get distracted by something else like, oh, a sheep or whatever. So I thought it was it was a really good comic relief within the book.

Jon (21:07)
Yeah, I liked her. I was very sad when she decided to leave.

Kristy (21:13)
Yeah. Let's talk about her leaving though and like specifically the very first time we encounter the Irids and how they treated Andarna. What did you think about that? Did that surprise you? Yeah, like this quest squad has been searching for these Irids and well, yeah, and finding them, which to me means they probably knew where they were the whole time. Right. They obviously have nowhere. Andarna is the whole time we found out they left Andarna. Yeah. And so I think that

Jon (21:24)
their treatment of her.

wound up finding them.

Kristy (21:43)
it's kind of like, they would welcome her with open arms and like all this. And that's not at all how it goes.

Jon (21:49)
That was a little surprising because I think you're left to assume that she was lost somehow or whatever, not necessarily left on intentionally in Navarre. And plus just like her desire, her like deep feeling of wanting to reconnect with her family, wanting to understand where she came from, you're kind of led to believe or it's implied that like they would have just taken her in and blah, blah, blah. I was hurt for her, I guess is really kind of

what I mounted to because she was so excited and just like so interested in wanting to find out where she came from and why she is how she is or why she's different than the other dragons that she knows of right now.

Kristy (22:30)
What did you think specifically of them saying that Violet was using her as a weapon?

Jon (22:36)
Yeah, from what we a little bit we learned about them, if they're quote unquote a peaceful breed, then yeah, I can see how that would be really jarring. to violet and everyone else there, like that's normal life. Dragons are weapons. They're bred for that thing. So I think it just showed the vast gap in connection and understanding like how much they really don't know about this other breed of dragon, which makes me wonder like,

Do the other dragons not know either? Like do the other six breeds not really understand this seventh breed? Like how do they not know that this is peaceful breed or this is, you whatever.

Kristy (23:16)
Well, every time that Tairn gets to the Great War when he's offering a soliloquy on... How great he is. Yeah, his family lineage. And I'm Tairneanach... Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He always stops at the Great War. So I wonder if like humans, there is this loss of history on the dragon side as well. ⁓ okay. I don't know. I just actually thought of that. So...

Jon (23:43)
Well, back to your original question, like, what did you think of the Irids finding them and like how they treated her?

Kristy (23:50)
do think it was really sad. felt bad for Andarna and felt for that longing she has to know family, to understand. But then also at first I thought, well, Violet wasn't using her. I I thought that like Violet's not using her. That's totally normal. But from their standpoint, I can completely understand why they feel that way.

Jon (24:10)
Well, and I think they were specifically referring to how she used her power and drew power to stop time. Yeah, she was a juvenile and stuff like that.

Kristy (24:18)
She's a juvenile.

But then also, Andarna choosing like the tail that she chose and, you know, like seeing herself as this weapon. I think there's a lot about the Irids we don't know. I think we're going to find out, I guess, that the Irids chose to leave. We know at one point that dragons did not bond with humans and that that was a choice that is talked about in the book when the first dragon decided to do that.

So I do wonder if that was a choice that the seventh breed didn't make and then they left after they helped fire up the ward stone. And then remember they tried to erase that from the history book. I don't remember where we, but that other diary that we see that they get in Iron Flame where they find that out that there's like a seventh. So I just, there's just so many things we don't know yet and we're just like still pulling back.

Jon (25:09)
such an expansive world.

Kristy (25:12)
In chapter 12, Violet visits Jack Barlow and he gives Violet some intel on the Venin exchange for alloy. In this conversation, Jack implies that someone at Basgiath has been channeling for years. We learn that Panchek is a trader that's in the Xaden chapter. Do you think there are others?

Jon (25:29)
mean, I think there would have to be because wasn't there like an entire battle where like they were hanging out with Sawyer and then all of sudden they realized that like they're under attack by Venin within their own walls and they were addressed as scribes or it was clear that they could be walking among them and people wouldn't know it.

Kristy (25:45)
Right. I'm asking if there are characters that we know. Well, we know at least one because that's at end of the book, but are there other characters that have been incognito this whole time?

Jon (25:49)
that we know.

Probably. I don't know that I would have names though. Do you have any theories?

Kristy (26:03)
I think I want to save him.

I guess this is a poorly planned question in the middle of this.

Jon (26:09)
That was a teaser question.

Kristy (26:11)
But I think that you're right. I think that there has to be. What did you think about the revelation of Violet's second signet? What implications do you think her dream walking signet will have in the future? And do you think there is more to that that we don't know?

Jon (26:28)
Yes, I think there's more to everything.

Kristy (26:30)
That's true. We don't know anything. You know nothing, Jon Snow.

Jon (26:33)
And having said that, my

answer would be yes. I thought her second signet may be a little, this is, I don't know if this is going to sound exactly how I mean it, but it felt a little anticlimactic when it was revealed. I don't know why I feel that way. It just, as I was reading it, I was like, oh, okay. But it did make me think back in one of our other episodes when we were talking about these books, when we were hypothesizing what signets could be.

I think one of them that we talked about was for her a sort of like future seeing or that sort of thing because she was having these dreams about Venin, about the sage and the hypothesis was like maybe she's seeing a battle to the future. So yeah, I don't know how that's going to manifest. I don't know if that will wind up being some way that her and Xaden still communicate somehow, even though their bond is is

dismantled that maybe she's walking into the dreams and like that's how they can keep their connection or something. Umm... But yeah, I don't know what are your theories or thoughts on her signet.

Kristy (27:43)
I think there is, like you said, there's a lot more to it. I wonder going back to book two in Iron Flame, she was having visions of what she thought were nightmares or whatever of the sage and the sage telling her she will turn. Now we know that's not her. She was in someone else's. Do you think,

Not only is she in dreams, and we know some of them are like possibly the future, that she can go to dreams of people who precede her.

Jon (28:21)
Like dead people?

Kristy (28:22)
or that happened before she was alive.

Jon (28:26)
⁓ I see. ⁓

Kristy (28:28)
Meaning, is there a possibility that that was her mother's dream, which I'll talk about later.

Jon (28:36)
How the did you get there? ⁓ another stupid question.

Kristy (28:38)
You'll see.

Because I think it's implied that some of these dreams have, like, these are things going to happen that people are dreaming about. Yeah. Right?

Jon (28:50)
or have, because dreams aren't necessarily precognition of the future.

Kristy (28:56)
No, no, no, there usually are memories of things that like our brain. But I thought it was implied like the one, like the specific one, the painting that she's in, it's not Kat, who's...

Jon (29:06)
Oh, the picture that she goes, the burning. Yeah. That was a memory of her. wasn't. OK. I don't remember the character's name either, but yeah, that was her memory. That's why when she went to validate this was happening, she went to pull out the picture because she was able to save it from that fire.

Kristy (29:12)
Okay.

Okay. But I was thinking she hasn't put together what she's seen yet. Some of these dreams. doesn't like, she knows the one she's with Xaden. Yeah. She's been, cause they've talked about it. Now she knows that other one cause she was able to tie it to a specific thing, but she hasn't thought about.

Jon (29:41)
from that point, you do all these other dreams or nightmares that she's had. Have they also been dreamwalking?

Kristy (29:46)
Right, has it only been Xaden's or the other people in Iron Flame that she was in their dream?

Jon (29:53)
Great question. Me neither.

Kristy (29:57)
So on the same lines as a second signet, we had several other second signet revelations in this book, including Garrick's ability to distance wield and Imogen's apparent earth or real or rock wielding abilities. We're not 100 % sure on that. Plus we learned that Aaric is a precog and can see the future. How might these signets be used in useful ways in the ongoing war?

Jon (30:24)
Well, two thirds of them we learned in the last 50 pages or whatever it was. I have no idea. I've had no time to process what that could possibly mean.

Kristy (30:28)
I even think it's that. ⁓

Honestly,

the first time I read it, I didn't miss Imogen's, I wasn't even really realizing what happened.

Jon (30:42)
Yeah,

until Bodhi says, no it was Garrick who picks her up.

Kristy (30:46)
No, it's Dain who says, we're going to talk about that later. And then I was like, wait, what are they going to talk about? So I was like, I'm like, oh, she does this thing.

Jon (30:56)
She wielded. Yeah, that's true. You're right. Cause when it happened, I'm like, I was trying to think back. Has she ever really before has images never like, but no, like that was the first time that she not that. Yeah. So

Kristy (31:08)
She's a mind, she erases minds.

But she's never had this like earth. Again, it's like she moves the rocks, right, with the earth. So, but we don't know what that exactly entails yet.

Jon (31:16)
Earth or...

I just had a thought, but I don't think it's very meaningful. But I was just like, if you said she moves the earth, I wonder if she pulled magic from the earth to move the earth. And if that means like she could be one of like ⁓ a... That's a bit of a stretch, but I mean, precognition, I don't know how that's not... That seems just as dangerous as an intrinsic or a dreamwalker or anything like that. Like that seems so powerful.

Kristy (31:35)
Yeah

It's not a privacy thing totally though. You're not in a person's mind. Like you're just seeing the outcome of something. I hear you. Like it does seem that, but I think it's for people like the privacy of it versus think if you had someone on your team that knew what was gonna like, that's a huge advantage. So I think that's why those people aren't considered as dangerous.

Jon (32:11)
What to do.

That's fair. Like he was trying to elude to violate about the temple and go protect the temple because he knew what would happen. It's crazy.

Kristy (32:27)
You have a lot more information than you're just like fucking tell us

Jon (32:30)
Yeah,

for reals. Like throughout the whole quest too, he just keeps peeling back these layers of like, you're fluent in all these languages. ⁓ you know all this history. so, yeah. But I mean, I guess to Tairn's point, like no one ever asked him about it either. So like he's not just going to freely give this information out until it's needed. Anyway, he was one of the characters I did enjoy getting to know a little bit more too.

Kristy (32:54)
Yeah, same. all right. So continuing on the signets, when Violet asked Xaden about the rebels having second signets, he says that when the dragons came looking for them, specifically the rebels, they knew what they were doing. And he says it was like they were, quote, building their own army. What do you think this means?

Jon (33:17)
means that dragons know everything and this is totally them pulling the puppet strings. Yeah, I don't know. what's your, what are your thoughts on that question? I don't have a bunch more deeper than that.

Kristy (33:30)
No, I think just basically that more signets equals more power for the dragons. And I keep going back to the fact that this is not the Violet and Xaden show. Like this series is specifically called the Empyrean series. It's the dragons. And I think that they are pulling the strings. I think there's so much more that we don't know about the dragons, about maybe specifically what...

really happened in this war, specifically why they chose to bond with humans at first, why they hadn't previously.

Jon (34:03)
Because if that means if more signets mean more power, why wouldn't they have bonded earlier?

Kristy (34:08)
No, no, no, no, no, they picked writers that had multiple signets, which stemmed from the ⁓ marks that are the marked ones and like what they got after the rebellion. So all the marked ones have second signets. Nobody knows.

Jon (34:20)
not sure.

⁓ second segments. Okay, all right, I'm tracking. Yeah.

Kristy (34:29)
⁓ Right. So the dragons specifically went out, some of the most powerful dragons went out seeking. That's what Xaden is saying. ⁓ They sought us out. It's no coincidence that the strongest dragons are with... ⁓

Jon (34:45)
Okay, check, check, check, check. Okay, got it. Do you think we're gonna hate dragons after this series? I don't know. I don't want to dislike dragons. I like them too much. I don't think so either. I don't think But I might wait for my tattoo until I find out for sure.

Kristy (34:51)
I don't want to

don't think so.

Your tattoo should not hinge on... I think though that either way they are battling against... They are also battling against a corrupt government. So I don't necessarily think that we're going to hate them. I think that they probably are using some of the humans or humans as much as the humans are using them.

Jon (35:05)
whether or not this series.

government you mean the Imperium? The human government? Okay.

Kristy (35:30)
No. Yeah.

Yeah. And the fact that they've erased history. Yeah. True. So one thing I was looking forward to coming out of Iron Flame was learning more about Violet's dad. And we learned that her father Asher did a fair amount of research before he married Lilith, her mom, assuming that he took the name Sorrengail after they were married, although the internet has speculated that he could have used a pen name to do some of this research.

I don't really like that idea, but do you think that this has any significance and do you think we'll learn more about the timeline of Violet's father and her research? Her research, as you say.

Jon (36:12)
⁓

Yes. Again, do I think more will be uncovered.

Kristy (36:17)
I

need to more on my open-ended questions. Why didn't I learn that in like grade school? Yes.

Jon (36:23)
Yes, it will. was really happy to get more about her dad. Again, I think we talked about that even maybe in fourth wing episode, or maybe it's just Iron Flame episode, don't remember. There's got to be more about her dad. want to learn more. He keeps coming up. He seems to be such an important pillar of not just Violet's background, but now all of Navarre, really, and Aretia through his research.

Kristy (36:44)
He's obviously a pivotal person in this story because of the research, because of the things he's uncovered. But I think it's been more, I don't think people realize the significance of what he was doing. And like that's going to end up playing a pivotal role. But I think that no one thought, like Colonel Atos, he had asked about that like research, but I don't think he realized like the things that her dad was doing.

Jon (37:10)
Yeah, I

mean, he went quite out of his way to hide and protect all those other books and journals on another Isle with cryptic code blocks and... I don't think we got even a... I feel like we got the tip of the iceberg on what's even in all of those in this book too. in this book also. What did you think of...

Kristy (37:23)
Only violet,

Jon (37:39)
Asher's research and his, guess you can't even answer that already.

Kristy (37:43)
I I think that there's so more that we're going to find out. think that I am curious about the timeline. how, when did he start this? When along the way? Because obviously he does some before they're married, while they're married. ⁓

What's the timeline of that and how long has this even Violet brings it up? Like there's so much more than she realized. Like when did my father have time to visit these aisles? Like, so it leans, it lends me to think that he's doing this before she was born. I just, I think there's so, so much more there. I did think we were going to learn more than we did in this book. Again, we still learn a lot.

I was disappointed that we didn't get a little bit more of her father. It kind of ends, I'm, I, cause that part to me is, I don't know. So interesting. It's just really interesting to me. Yeah. Yep.

Jon (38:39)
Well, you are kind of a historian buff. You like that sort of thing.

Kristy (38:43)
So we also

get several excerpts from a Colonel Daxton at the beginning of four chapters. Asher, Viloet's father, had taken the name Sorrengail by the time he reached the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. And this was his rank when he died, meaning he would not have reached the rank of Colonel. Colonel Daxton, so is Colonel Daxton Asher's father, who we really haven't heard about yet, or Nyra, the grandmother that Mira went to visit?

Jon (39:12)
That's a pretty loaded question. I don't know. I did catch the names were different. I think I probably assumed at the time or while I was reading it that it was Asher's father and that this

Kristy (39:25)
That's sexist. You assumed it was his father, not his mother.

Jon (39:27)
Wait, what? What?

Jesus

Christ.

Kristy (39:34)
to do with it.

Jon (39:36)
That it was a grandparent of Violet that clearly the research didn't start with Asher. That it had started long before that. so somewhere in the bloodline on either side of the family tree, it did start before Asher. So Asher just picked up or continued or uncovered new pieces. So I do think that rabbit hole is fairly deep yet.

Kristy (39:40)
the other relatives.

Yeah, I think it's the grandmother, Nyra, because one, she's mentioned. I just don't think that this would be someone who we have to guess who it is. I feel like the breadcrumbs are there for us. Rebecca Yarros has shown that she's pretty good at giving us what we need to like kind of figure this out or put together somewhat above a puzzle. And I mean, I appreciate that about her writing. But also I think that that lends itself to how long

Asher had been doing this research because if his mother was doing it before him, probably just like Violet got interested in it because her father, he got interested in it because of his mother. He's been exposed to it at a young age. Maybe she's feeding him this, you know, information. They're doing it together. He's able to take trips, presumably maybe before he meets Lilith, do some of this travel. And then...

Also, that could be the reason why Nyra gets mad after they do the dedica- or Asher does the dedication because maybe she sees it as his betrayal that you are a scribe, you deal in facts, you deal in history, and now you're doing this dedication that she doesn't, I think, believe in. Right. And then that's when she severs, you know, the relationship which the children thought

Violet and her brother and sister thought was something that the mother did, but it turns out Lilith was against it too. Right, right, right. I just, those excerpts, they're just like so filled with so much information at the beginning of every book, every chapter. All right, so our next two questions are going to be the onyx storm that is the last hundred pages of this book or whatever it is. All right, we're gonna go through chapter by chapter. boy. ⁓ sorry, no, it's two, okay.

Jon (41:49)
Okay.

Kristy (41:53)
We're going to go through the next, the last two chapters. Let's talk about chapter 65, which is Xaden, the chapter we hear from Xaden. We learned that Berwyn, which is the sage, isn't dead, even though this whole book, we thought he was dead and we thought he was dead because that's why Xaden actually channels. So Xaden said he would kill him if he could and wonders how many initiates feel the same way about their sage. He's talking about Berwyn and he says he can think of

at least one that he knows of. Who do think he's talking about?

Jon (42:26)
Is this the brother reference that he mentions in?

Kristy (42:29)
I don't think so at this point. Yeah. I'm not sure if he says this before or after, but I don't know if he's referring to Pan... He knows at this point Panchek is a Venin. Is he referring to Panchek? That's what I'm saying. Are there other people we don't know that are Venin that Xaden knows? I mean, we learn of one, but are there others that Xaden knows of?

Jon (42:32)
because he's just finding out about it.

No clue. Yeah, I got nothing. What are your theories? I have zero.

Kristy (43:01)
I mean, I have some possible theories. But before we talk about that, I wanna talk my God. Jesus. I'm not changing the question. I wanna talk about what else we learn in this chapter so we can have a full conversation about it. So we learn in this chapter that Xaden is actually no longer initiate. He is in Asim because he channels again enough that he changes. And he says that Violet will help him with what we don't know, but Sgaeyl says-

Jon (43:08)
another teaser question.

Kristy (43:30)
He'll never let you near her. And I think she's talking about Tairn. And then we learned that he has a new brother. Do you have guesses of who that might be?

Jon (43:39)
The only two people that come to mind could be Bodhi or Garrick because they've been the closest to him throughout the whole series. The only reason I say Garrick possibly is because we do learn earlier on of his signet of speed walking. don't know what the official term was. Distance. Yeah. Yeah. Distance wielding. There is a point in the last part of the book where Violet makes a comment, something in the effect of like,

Kristy (44:00)
I think

Jon (44:09)
he would have burnt out by now the number of times he's gone back and forth. I don't remember if he was bringing weapons or if he was moving people or what, but he was using his his signet to as part of the battle, like to save people or something like that. I don't know. No, Garrick. And so that makes me think maybe he's drawing from the earth in order to have a greater impact in the battle to save more people to.

Kristy (44:25)
Okay.

Jon (44:38)
⁓ He was doing it for the right reasons the same way Xaden had to beat in theory the sage. That's my only thought in that. I don't have

Kristy (44:49)
So the internet thinks it's Garrick or Bodhi. Like there is strong consensus that it's them. I don't know. I'll be. I do think that there's an argument to make that it could be Brennan. Now, I don't want to believe that Brennan is Venin, but he is sus. I'll tell you why.

Jon (45:12)
Just use us.

Kristy (45:14)
The scene where Violet learns that Brennan knows that he's Venin is weird to me. And we don't get the scene from Xaden or Brennan of when he learns. All we know is that he knows. So there's a part of me that thinks Brennan recognized it because he is also Venin. Or he has maybe been very close to someone else who's Venin.

Jon (45:29)
videos.

Kristy (45:44)
I just think that like that whole scene is like glossed over and glossed over in a way that when you look back at it, you're like, hmm, that is weird. How did he learn? We don't get scenes from other people. throughout the most of the book, we're only hearing from Violet. So of course there are things going on, conversations, whatever, that we don't get. I don't know. just think that Brendan is not quite right. He's not quite right. I don't know.

Jon (46:08)
You heard it here first.

Kristy (46:13)
Yeah, I don't know that he's a brother, but I think there's something there. Or maybe he is, he's not the brother, but he is Venin. That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Sure.

Jon (46:25)
Very interesting. Yes.

Kristy (46:27)
All right, let's move to chapter 66. This is the final chapter. And here are some of the things that we know. Violet and Xaden are now married and Violet was missing for over 12 hours. Imogen wiped Violet's memory at her own request. Violet reaches for the bond with Xaden, but it's not there. It's not dark or anything. Like she said, it's not there. It's Different than like- A wall. Right. Or like he has his shield sound like different. Yeah, I get it.

Jon (46:48)
Very different.

Kristy (46:55)
Tairn needs a cycle to recover, from what we don't know. Four Riders and their dragons are dead, including three elders. I think we can assume that Xaden is counted among those who are missing and probably whoever that new brother is, and Panchek, I'm guessing. So maybe there's just like one unaccounted for. There are six dragon eggs missing. Andarna says she will not let them burn Violet. And remember, Riders get burned for treason.

so we can assume that Andarna's bond is back. Xaden tells Violet that it's yours and not to come looking for him. It's being, we assume, Tyrrendor. Tyrrendor, right? So, tell me all of your theories with everything that happened. Literally that all happens in one chapter. I know, seriously. It is not that long of a chapter. No.

Jon (47:47)
I got, I have, I got nothing. I just, read it and it was just like, it was so much. It was a little overwhelming to what you were saying earlier. And it just kind of like, okay, that's all true. The dragon, like it was pretty crazy. Like the dragon eggs missing and the dragons and the riders being dead. That was surprising.

Kristy (47:50)
You got nothing?

Do we know though that the riders are dead or are we assuming that the dragons are? We only, they assume the riders are dead because the dragons are dead. And I say that because remember that if a dragon dies, its rider dies, but not if it's Venin. Right. So they could be assuming these riders are dead because they have dead dragons, but we know that that's not necessarily true.

Jon (48:32)
Jack survived.

I don't know. I got nothing.

Kristy (48:43)
What do you think about them being married though and what his like what Xaden's motivation was to make that happen?

Jon (48:51)
I some some way to keep her safe from something I don't know, probably from a toast or somewhere in the school like she's no longer just a cadet now she's a

Kristy (49:03)
Duchess of Tyrrendor.

Jon (49:05)
⁓

So some reason to protect her from either his actions or her soon to be actions. I don't know, but that's what I assume from that.

Kristy (49:17)
Yeah, I think so too, because Xaden says he'll never use her to protect Tyrrendor, but he will use Tyrrendor to protect her. And so far, know Aetos is coming out, has come after her and Xaden's not going to be around any longer. Right. And Violet is only a cadet, as you mentioned, so she doesn't really have power or something to hide behind. But now she does. And we know that

she could possibly be... I think that they're going to find out Violet knew he was Venin and so then she could be tried for treason. And that's why Andarna says, I'm not going to let him burn you. But now ⁓ she has the protection of Tyrrendor. Right. Let's talk about the bond not being there with Xaden. Okay. So presumably we believe that Xaden and Violet have a bond because Sgaeyl and

Jon (50:03)
sense.

Kristy (50:15)
Tairn have a bond. So if the bond is not there, what does that mean between the bond between Sgaeyl and Tairn? And is that the reason that Tairn has to recover? Because he's also grieving because he severed the bond with Sgaeyl. Because Sgaeyl is interesting because remember she's giving Xaden basically the cold shoulder this whole book because he turned.

And then at the end, kind of see her helping him.

Jon (50:49)
helping him or

Kristy (50:52)
And we don't know,

having a conversation saying how they're going to come up to for a resolution for whatever that means. I don't think we know what that means yet, but.

Jon (51:02)
Yeah, I don't know. What are your theories? I don't have any. ⁓ Okay. I just

Kristy (51:04)
I just gave you them all.

No, just, think that, I mean, my thought would be, yeah, Tairn, Sgaeyl, maybe they sever their bond because they can't be together. Like Xaden has to leave. He says, don't come, like, don't look for me. He has to leave now. And that means that Sgaeyl and Tairn are going to be apart. And so maybe Tairn needs this recovery time because he's dealing with a shattered bond.

Jon (51:33)
So what happens with Sgaeyl then?

Kristy (51:36)
Or maybe she severed the bond with Xaden.

Jon (51:38)
With Xaden.

and now Tairn has to grieve also because...

Kristy (51:43)
That

probably makes more sense. Maybe she is grieving, so Tairn is grieving because she severed the bond with Xaden. That's why Violet can't talk to Xaden. There has to be something with bonds there because like she said, reaches for, like the bond is not there. Yeah.

Hehehe, phew!

I'm just, don't know when we're getting book four, but I'm really excited for it.

Jon (52:11)
There's just so much. Even just hearing you rattle off all those things that happened in the last 20, 50 pages or whatever, it's just like, oh my God, why couldn't you spread this out a little bit more? Give us a little bit more. Give us a little drop along the way instead of this all at once. It's a lot.

Kristy (52:30)
I do think the whole book really could have been all the quests that happened. And then this battle scene and everything that happened could probably have been a whole freaking book. Yeah, know. For reals. Learn more. don't know. well, here we are. Do you have any final thoughts about this book? And then of course, would you recommend it to our listeners?

Jon (52:51)
book was overwhelming, but in good way. I think that's, I guess, to be expected a little bit in a series that is this deep and diverse and expansive. It's good that you're able to go deep, that it's not just all surface level kind of ⁓ characters and worlds and things like that, but it is, it's a lot. Like it's a lot to take in, it's a lot to maintain, especially for a ⁓ less analytical reader than some. ⁓

Kristy (53:21)
I mean, you're still enjoying it though.

Jon (53:23)
Yeah,

I'm enjoying it, but I'm like putting all like making all the connections that others do, which is fine. Like I totally enjoyed the book.

Kristy (53:31)
I don't think you enjoyed it less because you're not sitting here and like thinking of all the crazy theories I have. But you can absolutely enjoy it 100%.

Jon (53:40)
And I did. I definitely did. I'm excited for the fourth one also. I hope we get more on the Irids. I hope we get more on like what did Andarna learn in the time that she was away or what happened there. And yeah, who's the brother?

Kristy (53:58)
Who's a brother? More on her dad. I even think more on her mom, to be honest.

Jon (54:04)
I mean, Mira and Brennan too, like you still don't really know a ton about them either, even though they've been in it for two books now.

Kristy (54:11)
Right. think it's back to what you were saying about the book and there's just so much and it's funny I was talking to someone the other day and asking them what kind of books they like to read because they asked me for recommendations and they said they like fantasy but they don't like things with dragons and I said tell me why and they said because they feel like when there's dragons

there has to be like a whole bunch of world building that happens, which is completely fair because we don't have dragons in this world or do we? And I love the fantasy world because of that. And I actually think any book really, like whether it's dragons or another type of magical being, like you have to have a world building. But specifically, I love that about it because you get to learn so much more. We're constantly hearing more about this.

and their culture and the people that live there and their customs and even their languages, their gods and how they worship and what their values that they hold. I think that, like you said, any book or book series like this, it is going to feel overwhelming because there is a lot. You're not just getting a story that is set in this world and about

and things you understand or values or a government that you understand. Like it's completely foreign to us. So I love that about it. Yeah. I mean, I didn't love the pacing of this book, I, there's just, it felt like drinking from a fire hose the last hundred pages, I guess. And maybe that's why I was just like, wow, but it was still great.

Jon (55:53)
It was. I would recommend, but you gotta read the first two.

Kristy (55:55)
Yeah, this is not a standalone. You will not understand all the things that are going on. But if you like fantasy, if you are into world building, like deep world building, absolutely, check this series out. If you don't like dragons, it's not for you, but...

Jon (56:11)
we can't be friends.

Kristy (56:13)
We

can be friends.

Jon (56:15)
from a distance.

Kristy (56:18)
Well, we wanted to remind everyone that the next two books in our lineup are Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid and Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea by Jessica Guerrier. And as always, don't forget that a free way to support our show is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple Podcasts. Also, if you don't want to rate us, but you have a question or feedback, can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. You can also DM us on TikTok or Instagram.

Jon (56:45)
I think it's still funny that you say it. No, it's just funny that we're on TikTok and be sure to tell any other book lover about the show. Yes.

Kristy (56:47)
What am I supposed to say? ⁓

Well, I guess that's it.

Jon (56:58)
That is the first in season three in the...

Kristy (57:02)
Well, who knows, maybe this will be the one your husband reads.

Jon (57:06)
Okay then everyone. Bye bye. Bye, thanks for hanging out.

Kristy (57:10)
See you then.

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