The Love Haters

Kristy (00:00)
Welcome to Books I Make My Husband Read, a self-described hilarious and heartfelt podcast where I, Kristy, the devoted book lover, curate an unexpected reading list for my husband, Jon.

Jon (00:10)
And that's me. Each episode, we'll dive into lively discussions, humorous debates and surprising insights on the books Kristy just has to make me read.

Kristy (00:18)
We're here to explore everything from timeless classics to quirky hidden gems, challenging our perspectives and inviting you to join in on the fun.

Jon (00:26)
Settle in, grab your favorite beverage, and get ready for another literary adventure.

Kristy (00:46)
Hello listeners and welcome to season two, episode 10 of Books I Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy.

Jon (00:52)
And I'm your co-host Jon the one who Kristy makes read all of the books

Kristy (00:57)
I only make you read some of the books.

Jon (01:00)
all of the books that I read in my lifetime.

Kristy (01:02)
It's 95 % true. This week we'll be discussing The Love Haters by Katherine Center, a witty and heartfelt rom-com about a burned out video producer who fakes her way into profiling a coast guard hero and unexpectedly learns to love herself along the way.

Jon (01:19)
This one was a little different than I expected. I'm not entirely sure what I expected. I haven't read obviously that many romance novels, but this, I don't know. It just hit a little differently. So be curious to hear.

Kristy (01:35)
Didn't

have expectations, but this did not meet those expectations. How does that work?

Jon (01:40)
Correct. It makes sense in my head. That's all that matters.

Kristy (01:43)
Okay. Well, I am excited to talk about this one. And more importantly, though, I cannot believe this is our last episode of season two. Right.

Jon (01:53)
I know it's been what a year? Yeah.

Kristy (01:56)
Yes,

just a little under a year will be a year in August, I believe. Well, we do want to thank our listeners for sticking around with us and be sure you are following us on Instagram at Books and Make My Husband Read to see when season three will drop. We do expect that to be late summer.

Jon (02:00)
Crazy.

Yep. And we also want to announce that not only does Kristy force me to read all the books, she's also forcing me to do another thing. To attend RomanceCon this year. Yeah, you heard that right. We just finalized our agreement to be a vendor there in September. So for all of our romance lovers out there, which if you're listening to this episode, you probably fall into that camp. We hope to see you there. Look for the vendor Books I Make My Husband Read.

Kristy (02:41)
You have no idea how happy that makes me.

Jon (02:44)
You also have no idea how much anxiety that gives me, but I'm sure it'll be great.

Kristy (02:48)
You'll be great!

Jon (02:51)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so how about we dig into that spoiler free book summary?

Kristy (02:56)
You got it, dude. It's a thin line between loving, love hating, and Katie Vaughn has been burned by love in the past. And now she may be lighting her career on fire. She has two choices, wait to get laid off from her job as a video producer or at her coworker Cole's request, take a career making gig profiling Tom "Hutch" Hutchison, a Coast Guard rescue swimmer in Key West.

Jon (03:20)
But there's a catch. Cole and Hutch are brothers and they're not exactly on speaking terms. Plus, Katie's not exactly qualified for the gig. She can't swim. But given the circumstances, decides to lie that she can. So it's off to paradise, but paradise is messier than it seems. As Katie gets entangled with Hutch, the most scientifically good looking man she's ever seen, along with his colorful Aunt Rue,

and his rescue Great Dane, she gets trapped in a lie or two or three.

Kristy (03:53)
Swim lessons, helicopter flights, conga lines, drinking contests, hurricanes, and stolen kisses ensue, along with the chance to tell the truth, to face old fears, and to be truly brave at last.

Jon (04:06)
That's the end of the spoiler free summary. All right. Well then everyone knows what time it is. It's the spoiler alert. We are about to dive into uncharted waters with no floaties and no coast guard. So if you can't float through spoilers and feelings, now's your chance to doggy paddle right on out of here.

Kristy (04:08)
That's it.

Well, that was a good one. Thanks. Let's talk about what we thought of this book. I really liked this one. I know you said you had no expectations, but it didn't meet your expectations, which doesn't really make sense. But here we are talking about it. But I do think if you probably went in expecting it to be similar to the Abby Jimenez or the Emily Henry books that you have read, it isn't.

Jon (04:38)
Okay then, hit it.

Kristy (05:02)
quite on the same lines. feel like Katherine Center's writing style is a little bit different. The romance is not as spicy, which isn't, I miss that, but I love other things about her books. But I like this one because of the journey that Katie goes on with herself, which we'll talk about. And I did read a lot of the more constructive reviews I'll say that rated it lower.

And a lot of people had some negative feelings toward what they said. It just kind of went on and on about the body image issues. But I will say, as someone who has body image issues, it is always in my head. Like it is constantly on replay. And if you don't have that, I'm so glad for you because some days are like harder than others. And I mean, I've come a long way with my body image issues, but.

I definitely could relate to some of the things that Katie was struggling with and feeling and thinking about herself.

Jon (06:04)
So that was actually initially part of what I was reacting to in the book as well. Well, maybe not the body issue dialogue specifically. I don't know. At first I found Katie to be a little annoying, but as I got a little bit more backstory and as I got a little bit more context, I got to empathize with her a little bit more. Like when she started going into the backstory of why she has these issues and what sparked all of them. Then I was like,

Okay, I get it. That makes sense. I mean, I have my own issues too. I guess you kind of hit on it as well with the romance part. It was a little less spicy, which frankly for me, it was not a bad thing. Um, and I don't know, I just, found some of it to be a little predictable and there was a clear message to be told in a story that Katherine center is definitely trying to get across. I think if you kind of lean into that,

then it's a really enjoyable book. But if you're looking for something with maybe a little bit more dynamic, I don't know, may be a little missed a little bit there for me.

Kristy (07:13)
Yeah. Let's dive in these questions though, because I think we're starting to touch on some of that. All right. So Katie's relationship to herself, specifically her body image is central to the story which you've already mentioned. How did you relate it to Katie's journey with her body and her inner dialogue on self-acceptance or self-worth?

Jon (07:32)
So at first I found it a little annoying as I mentioned in my overview. I wasn't sure why it was so pertinent to her dialogue. And then once I got the backstory, I'm like, okay, I understand that's part of her journey through this whole, it's part of her character arc. Yeah, I mean, I could relate. Like I'm not a woman, but I have my own self-confidence issues. I do, I mean, just this past weekend, you were like, put on this shirt. And I'm like, nope.

Kristy (07:55)
Cheers.

Jon (08:02)
It just fits a little too tight around the midsection and I'm just, I'm not comfortable in that. Every time I look in the mirror, I'm like picking at something while I'm brushing my teeth or whatever. I get that.

Kristy (08:11)
I literally just doing it in this video when we were setting up of myself, not you.

Jon (08:17)
So I might not have as consistent of a dialogue as Katie did through the book, but I could definitely empathize and relate with that narrative and struggle and what it does to your psyche and not see it in other places in your life as well, such as relationships or work or whatever.

Kristy (08:34)
Yeah, there's a quote that, or a line that Katie says, and she says, if you think I'm rude, you should meet the voice in my head. She's unhinged and has zero filter. And that's absolutely true for myself. The things that I say to myself about myself sometimes are completely ridiculous and not things I would say to a friend or any person for that matter. And I'm a confident person too. I...

like live my life a lot in confidence, but the body image issues have been there throughout my adult life. Ironically, were not part of my childhood or my teenage years actually at all. And it's something I developed in to my twenties and has carried throughout. And I have good days, I have bad days, but I think the emphasis in the book is driving the point home that if you struggle with this,

it's constantly there. It's not just something that flickers. Like it is a constant dialogue in your head. And so if you don't have that, you probably think, yeah, this is overdone. But speaking from experience, like I didn't feel that way at all.

Jon (09:41)
But there's also the, there's a small part midway or two thirds of the way through the book where Katie's talking to Hutch. I think this was after she got the notice about a new song about her and she went and read the comments and she kind of was starting to spiral and she's talking to Hutch or she's saying, you're gorgeous. Like you're the most scientifically beautiful man I've ever seen or whatever she says in the book. Yeah, that was a description of him and he's just like,

Kristy (10:06)
which that was the describer of him.

Jon (10:10)
I mean, I'm okay, I guess. Even to his point, even someone who looks like he does in theory or how she's painting him can completely not see that and still see the flaws. mean, we're human beings. We look for flaws.

Kristy (10:27)
Well, I mean, and also then you see someone who has in the book who has a positive body image, which was her cousin and best friend Beanie, who says, I know I'm not perfect. I know that my body doesn't look like a body in a magazine or a body on TV, but this is my body and I'm happy in my body because it's mine. And so, so I guess we just also get to hear like that point of view as well.

Jon (10:50)
Yeah. I liked Beanie. She clearly played a pillar of stability and consistency. And I actually, I was trying to place myself in Katie's shoes when Beanie was saying, you need to pick 10 things that you like about yourself. I struggle with that in the same way she does. Like I would probably pick my thumbnail or my eyelashes or something ridiculous or my earlobe or something ridiculous like that. Because I just, also, even though it's

a little bit different. Like I just naturally have a hard time giving myself compliments and thinking about anything in my positive light. I could relate to her narrative in that way also.

Kristy (11:33)
Yeah, and I also appreciated that Beanie only pushed when at certain moments, like she didn't force her. She kind of led Katie on this journey and helped like to self-discovery, but she was firm when she needed to be firm, but she didn't like overdo it because she also recognized that, you know, her friend is struggling. So that's a great segue to our next question. Katie's cousin and best friend Beanie talked to Katie about creating a culture of appreciation with herself.

Jon (11:53)
Yeah, as a good friend does.

Kristy (12:03)
So in very short summary, a culture of appreciation is focusing on what your partner gets right and letting them know. So instead of Katie focusing on like what her partner gets right, she has a culture of appreciation with herself. So how do you feel that this helped in Katie's healing process?

Jon (12:20)
I think it was kind of core and central to her healing process. I think it wasn't just about ignoring the noise from the outside world, but she didn't love herself either. And we really hear that at the end of the book when she's trapped in the hurricane with the dog. I can't remember his name right now. George Bailey! And where she's like, what was the thing Beanie said that I'm comfortable with?

my body because it's the only one I have or it's, me or something like that. think she said, and that really resonated because it's, true. It's like, this is the only one I've, I've got. So I can either be annoyed with it or I can choose to just embrace what it is. And so I think that Katie's

Kristy (13:02)
Meaning

you feel like you should have more empathy towards your body than you're currently having?

Jon (13:07)
Yes. And so I think that that's, that was core to KD ceiling process.

Kristy (13:12)
And I also think it starts off really slow. So I think the first thing that Katie says that is the thing she loves about herself is her earlobes. And I think then next is like her fingernail and her ankle.

Jon (13:25)
her ankle and like a thumb or something.

Kristy (13:28)
So she starts off small, but then like you said, then she has this pivotal moment in the book when she actually realizes she might die and that she should have been appreciating her body a little bit more along the process. So do you feel like in our relationship we have created a culture of appreciation?

Jon (13:46)
Yes?

Kristy (13:49)
Do you understand what the culture of appreciation is?

Jon (13:53)
Yeah, I mean, we acknowledge when one another gets something right or does something that your partner would want to see more of or more of from you. I think we do that in a consistent, relatively healthy manner.

Kristy (14:08)
instead of focusing on what we get wrong.

Jon (14:10)
Yeah,

and only pointing out like, I don't know, I didn't do the dishes or something.

Kristy (14:15)
when your underwear doesn't make it into the basket.

Jon (14:18)
I full intention of doing it.

Kristy (14:20)
I created a video and everything.

Jon (14:24)
Yeah, I mean, what do you think? you think we have?

Kristy (14:27)
Definitely, I think that I feel like we say thank you and give each other appreciation a lot more than we bring up, know, quote unquote issues or, you know, things we're upset about in our relationship.

Jon (14:43)
Yeah, I think we do a pretty good job of balancing all of that. I mean, we have made it what 14 years now in total. I mean, not in marriage, but of knowing each other. So I'd say we're doing something right.

Kristy (14:57)
Or are we just doing something? So what did you think about the story being set in Key West? Do you think that played a part in Katie's transformation and self discovery?

Jon (15:07)
Yeah, think absolutely one, I want to go to Key West.

Kristy (15:10)
I do too. It's one of those places I want to go to all, like I want to drive the key highway. It's the highway that like connects them all, but I really don't want to spend my money in Florida right now.

Jon (15:22)
Yeah, there's that. Also, it's just been forever and a day since we've had like just a random beach vacation where we just go and do nothing and sit. So that would be awesome. And read. So I think there is a, an island has a certain perceived mood about it where it's just like laid back and goes with the flow and a little more carefree, less

go, go, go, judgey. So I think that was probably very intentional to place it in a environment like that. So Katie could let go of a lot of stress and anxiety in the world that she came from, where she was dating a rock star or a, you know, a musician who made it in the limelight and, and there was none of that on the Island. was just about color and calmness and

peace with yourself and friends and family. It felt more personal and inner circle-y than the noise that the internet and everyone else. circle-y? I did say circle-y. That can have an impact on. So yeah, I think the location absolutely played a part. What do you think?

Kristy (16:40)
also think this came up in Just for the Summer because part of that is set on an island too. And that is really about the main character there, how she isolates herself, not just literally on an island, but also figuratively with some of her relationships with people. So in this book though, I think the island really represents a rebirth maybe of self-reliance and self-assurance that Katie didn't previously have because...

You know, we see at the end, she has to learn to rely on herself. And then she has this, you know, moment epiphany, whatever you want to call it, where she gives thanks to her body for like getting her through and, you know, doing all the things that all of our bodies do. And most of us take for granted a lot of the times. So I think that, I don't know what you would call it, but I think that that's kind of a metaphor or whatever that she's on this island and she has to be really self-reliant.

Jon (17:35)
Yeah, that makes a of sense to me.

Kristy (17:37)
So once Katie hears that Hutch is a love hater, as assumed by his brother Cole, Katie questions whether she is also a love hater. Do you think she was, or do you think she was protecting herself from something deeper?

Jon (17:50)
I definitely think she was trying to protect herself. think from the hurt and damage that she got from her relationship with Lucas and how all that unfolded, think she was definitely afraid of love, maybe less hating on it than afraid to fall in love again and have that same sort of effect to destroy her even more. Because she acknowledges early on in the book, like the

black hole that she spiraled into after that event, how she like starved herself and did all these things and acknowledges that that wasn't healthy. think she is afraid of that happening again. What do you, what do you?

Kristy (18:28)
also think there's a component of loving yourself in here. And because Katie doesn't have love for herself, she struggles to have love for other people. And it is compounded because of what happened with Lucas, but also it's a journey that she's been on for a really long time, even as a child, as she has had these body image things pressed upon her.

And so she has struggled with loving herself for a long time. So I don't think she's a love hater, but I think that, I think that she questions it because she has been one jaded by Lucas, but also jaded by the love she has for herself too. So what did you think of the humor in this one? Did any of the scenes make you laugh out loud?

Jon (19:11)
Great to have you

Not really. What? They were, I mean, it was cute a lot of it, but I maybe chuckled at one or two things, but no, I didn't find myself laughing out loud at anything in this one.

Kristy (19:28)
really liked when Katie talks to the reader. I like that style of writing when you know, it's almost like you're writing in a diary and then you say something directly to the reader. I really like that. I think she has a couple witty things there. And then there's a bar scene where Cole and Hutch have a drinking game. And the prize is to kiss Katie, which of course doesn't happen. That's horrible. But there's a drunk guy and he's like, who's gonna kiss the girl?

I don't know, I that was really funny.

Jon (19:59)
That whole scene to me was just like really disturbing.

Kristy (20:03)
It was cringy for sure, but that like one line I laughed out loud. Okay. Cause like, I mean, I'm not excusing his like obviously horrid behavior, but because I knew she was protected by Hutch there, but. point. So I know you don't have brothers, but what did you think about the dynamic between Hutch and Cole? Did you find their sibling rivalry realistic and compelling?

Jon (20:24)
Definitely realistic. Cole is the worst. Yeah, I don't have brothers. I have two sisters, but I think there's definitely a dynamic of sibling jealousy, rivalry, all that kind of stuff that gets embedded in any, especially younger sibling. I'm a middle kid, right?

Kristy (20:44)
You also have a pretty large age gap between both your older and younger sister, so I do think that...

Jon (20:50)
That's a little bit different. Yeah, I would agree with that. I thought the dynamic there was was definitely realistic. I thought it was compelling part of the story. I thought the resolution was also very realistic as you learn more of the backstory and what happened and how Ru took them in. so I mean, as much as I hated Cole through most the hate is kind of a strong word, but as much as I despise Cole through most of the book, I definitely understood.

or that storyline was compelling throughout the book. You have brothers.

Kristy (21:29)
and have one that's only 13 months younger than me. So I think there was definitely rivalry between us. But what I want to talk about is the scene where they actually get into a fight. And Katie's like, should we do something? And Rue's like, no, they need this. And they'll tire themselves out. So this was when I was younger and I'm not condoning violence by any means or having a fight, but...

My brother, my brother and I also grew up in the eighties. So I remember we were arguing and we had a Nintendo or whatever council in the basement. And my dad comes down cause we were arguing and he's like, what's going on? And I was like, he won't fight me. And my dad's like, says to my brother fighter. And so we go at it, probably not very long. And then my dad's like, all right, are you done?

And we were done. Then we just went back to playing video games. We just like got out whatever anger, energy, like we needed to get out and that was it. And the same thing kind of happens in the book. Like they roll around and scrap around for a while and then they actually end up having this like really great conversation and talking through it. So I really liked that about the dynamic of them too, cause I could really relate to it.

Jon (22:51)
Yeah, I get that. My household, it would been like my older sister and I being put in the same chair and we had to hold hands.

Kristy (22:58)
I mean, we definitely had that when we were really young, but this was when we were probably, I mean, this is probably early 90s, I guess.

Jon (23:04)
Yeah,

that's a good story. I don't know if I've heard that one before. Maybe I have.

Kristy (23:08)
I don't know, you've heard a lot of my stories. So let's talk about the fake dating between Cole and Katie. Katie goes along with the ruse because she is trying to protect Rue. What would you have done? Would you have gone along with it? Also given the circumstances.

Jon (23:24)
This was so annoying, this whole scene and it was all coal and she knew it. And she's like, I'm caught in this web of lies and I'm gonna get punished for it and I haven't done any of it. And like, well, you're going along with it. So you are kind of doing some of it. But I don't know. I think by that point in the book, I would have thought that she would have had enough like self- courage, yeah, self-courage to just be like,

no, this ends now, even her relationship with Rue, but yeah, I don't know. I I could sit here and play that out and be like understanding that Rue hasn't told Hutch this news about her health or whatever. that's not her story to tell. But it's also like, no.

Kristy (24:13)
It also doesn't concern her at all. I do think that I would have never gone along with it. Absolutely not. And because she likes Hutch, and I would never, especially after she knows what's happened with Cole's fiance, I would have never gone along with it because I wouldn't want, I don't know, just like to...

Jon (24:16)
Yeah.

Kristy (24:33)
become between the brothers like that other thing that has caused this huge rift between them. Like it's already there and you don't want to be contributing to that. But I do think Katie's, I actually think at this point in the book, she's still struggling a lot with confidence. you know, waffles a back and forth of whether Hutch actually likes her or not. Like they did have the kiss, but she's still questioning it because of how he acts the next day because she at this point like doesn't, didn't really know the whole story. So she's finding it all out.

And because she doesn't have the confidence we see her have at the end of the book, I actually get why she goes along with it, but I don't know. Yeah, it annoyed me too.

Jon (25:12)
Yeah, sure. I can get why she went along with it, but yeah, it's, I think it definitely caused more harm and damage than it did any benefit.

Kristy (25:23)
So I read this book, I actually received an ARC thanks to the publisher. And then I listened to it before this episode to refresh my memory. But both when I read it and when I listened to it, I booked Mark something that Katie says, which is, the funny thing about the internet is that it's basically a collective hallucination. If you don't join in, it doesn't exist. I mean, it does, but in a very real way, it doesn't.

What did you think about this and do you think it's true?

Jon (25:53)
I remember that line listening to it also that one stuck jumped out to me also. I instinctively agree. Like it is one big giant hallucination because it's just baseless spewing of whatever might be on someone's mind with no repercussion or recourse or really any, anything like that. So it's all a bunch of noise. And when you can

shut that off and ignore it, like you realize what actually like really matters or is important around you. So what it stuck out to you about it.

Kristy (26:32)
I mean, yeah, I mean, it is in a ways this collective hallucination that she says, and that if you aren't part of it, it doesn't exist. So the internet can be saying the most hurtful things about you, because people are ridiculous and leave ridiculous comments that they would never say to someone's face. But if you don't join in, if you don't look at those comments, they don't mean anything. They're not real.

because you have not allowed them into your psyche, into your life, into having an effect on you at all. yeah, it just really stuck out to me that everyone, it's not real. ⁓

Jon (27:15)
We could say that about almost anything though going around the world.

Kristy (27:21)
Give me an exam. What do mean?

Jon (27:23)
news outlets or organizations like if we don't listen to the news and does that mean it doesn't?

Kristy (27:29)
But

sometimes the news does affect you. being passed at Congress that are reported on are going to affect you. Sure. But what someone says about you on the internet is not actually real. It has no effect on you unless you let it, unless you look at it. Yeah. Do you have another example? No. Okay. Well, you said about anything, so I didn't want to just shoot down the one example you gave me. What did you think of the hurricane scenes and Katie's survival with George Bailey?

Jon (27:31)
Right, but if we're not...

Kristy (27:58)
Was it realistic to you?

Jon (28:00)
Lame.

Kristy (28:03)
That's hurtful.

Jon (28:05)
I knew that she was going to go back. I would have went back. Like you don't leave a dog.

Kristy (28:11)
I thought I have thought about this and what I was going to say like you would have gone back for George Bailey for sure. Yes, I know. I know I but I wouldn't wasn't even thinking about George Bailey. I'm like would I have gone back for one of our dogs and my first instinct is I've never fucking left our dogs. Let's be clear. But of course I would have went back for our dogs.

Jon (28:32)
Yeah,

and I don't know that like in our scenario we wouldn't have left them but maybe we were out somewhere and the story comes out and we would have had to go back for them like I don't know maybe we went on a trip or something. Anyway, it was okay. I think it was a catalyst of a moment for Katie to come to her realization and self-acceptance of herself at the face of death. And do I think they would have survived on this little boat?

No, but I don't know. Maybe.

Kristy (29:07)
mean, strange things have happened.

Jon (29:09)
Stranger things have happened, I know, but.

Kristy (29:12)
I felt similarly like there's no way they would survive this. But when you read Katherine Center's author note and acknowledgments and the amount of research she did with the Coast Guard, I imagine she, you know, fleshed some of that out with them and what was realistic.

Jon (29:27)
Probably true. mean, it wasn't rainbows and sunshine for sure.

Kristy (29:31)
I mean, there's some really bad things that end up happening. It's stuff I didn't even think about how, you know, she's trying to walk and, you know, she's experiencing zero gravity because, you know, the waves and she gets thrown up for a second and like everything comes crashing down and, you know, there's all the contents of the fridge pour out and she ends up putting George Bailey in the closet, which I think is a great idea with some pillows. But yeah, I mean, I just like can't even imagine.

Jon (29:58)
⁓

Also, I think the whole rescue thing was also a little cheesy.

Kristy (30:03)
I mean, it's supposed to be.

Jon (30:05)
I

guess, but like dangling from a wire, spilling your heart and soul out. I don't know that that was, that was a little over.

Kristy (30:14)
Put your heart up to the love, Jon.

Jon (30:18)
My heart's open to love. I was picturing it as like a scene in a movie. I'm like, this is so lame. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Kristy (30:29)
The helicopter comes down, the ladder comes down, Hutch jumps into the water, a song from Heart is playing in the background. No?

Jon (30:41)
No, you can go see that movie in the theater all on your own.

Kristy (30:47)
All right, so George Bailey, what did you think of him as a character and do you think his fear of thunder had any deeper meaning with the story and Katie's journey?

Jon (30:57)
I mean, it probably did, I didn't pick up on any of it. no, dogs are commonly afraid of thunder. So I just took that as face value. But clearly you have some thoughts that there are deeper things.

Kristy (31:11)
Well, I don't know that, I mean, those are just thoughts. I have no idea if Katherine Center intended this, but there is also this theme of exposure therapy throughout the book. They talk about, well, you have to do the thing that you're afraid of. And it's no different than the learning to love yourself. Like you have to say things to yourself that maybe you're not comfortable saying in order to learn to love yourself. And I think that you're right. Dogs are actually afraid of thunder. We have a dog who is as well.

but he ends up going through this, know, pseudo, I would say exposure therapy a little bit. We don't know if he comes out on the other side, but I think that they're like both dealing with something like that and then both end up on the boat together.

Jon (31:51)
I get that, tracks.

Kristy (31:53)
This is acceptable. To me, one of the best part of Katherine Center's novels are her author's notes. Also, if you don't read author's notes, you're missing out. But Katherine Center's especially. And in fact, even though I hadn't made you read a Katherine Center book prior to this, we have discussed her author's notes in other episodes. So in this note, Katherine says, people say you have to love yourself before you can love others, but I don't think it's linear.

Learning to love yourself is a process and a circular one at that, not to mention a big project. We all struggle with what it means to be seen in the world. And while we don't really have control over how the world chooses to see us, we can, and this may be the smartest thing I've ever figured out in all my years on earth, we can see ourselves for ourselves. What I'm saying is we can train our own eyes to look with kindness and pay attention to what's beautiful and focus on what's right instead of what's wrong.

That's how you fall in love and stay in love with anyone, including yourself. See the best in the person and enjoy the hell out of it as often as you can. She also finishes the note by saying, love stories make us better at love and getting better at love, of course, means getting better at life. What do you think of this idea?

Jon (33:09)
I think we could all benefit from a little more love and acceptance in our life in general. So I can totally see that being a healthy mantra to kind of live by. I think that the more you love, the better you love, the better you get at life. I would agree with that. What do you think?

Kristy (33:33)
I think that when I read this and getting better at love is getting better at life is that I look at love as a spectrum and how you love your spouse or your partner is different than how you love your parents or siblings or your friends or your car or humanity or any of those things that we have love for and love comes in different forms of feelings.

empathy is a sort of love. And it's not the like the love I have for you, but being able to be empathetic to people who are in different circumstances than me or look different than I am or think differently than I do makes me a better human. And I think that that is a kind of love. And when I was reading that, like that's how I took it. That's one way that if you get better at that, you're gonna be better at life.

Jon (34:29)
I think that's a very wise statement and I would agree with that.

Kristy (34:40)
Okay, well, would you recommend this book to our listeners?

Jon (34:44)
I think so. I think it's a good story. I think I would have maybe enjoyed it a little bit more if I had gone into it with a little bit different thinking or expectation, but I would recommend it.

Kristy (34:55)
Would you want to read another Katherine Center book?

Jon (34:58)
Yeah, I think so. I think there's a good moral lesson to be had in that one. So if that's her thing, I'd probably read another one.

Kristy (35:06)
Yeah, I do think that, I mean, and again, like some of the other romantic comedies we've read that there are other relationships at play. So in this case, you know, have the Hutch and Katie story, but you also have the relationship she's going on with herself as well. Well, that is a wrap for season two. Thank you so much to our listeners. This show wouldn't be possible without you. Remember to follow us on Instagram or if you have a question or even a book recommendation.

You can always email us at booksandmakemyhusbandread at gmail.com. We would love to hear from you.

Jon (35:39)
Yep. And don't forget that if you are enjoying the show to please rate and review us on Apple podcasts or Spotify or tell a friend, another book lover about the show.

Kristy (35:49)
Well, I guess that's it.

Jon (35:52)
That's the season two in the books.

Kristy (35:54)
Yes it is. And who knows, maybe this will be the one your husband reads. It should be. Is that a glowing recommendation?

Jon (35:59)
It should be.

recommendation.

Kristy (36:05)
That is a singular recommendation. All right, take care. We'll be back for season three. Peace out dudes.

Jon (36:08)
Yes.

Good night!

Bye!

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